What if

GROUP BUILDS => 2007 Group Builds => The Knackers Yard => Coast Guard/SAR Build => Topic started by: kitnut617 on September 06, 2007, 01:25:30 pm

Title: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: kitnut617 on September 06, 2007, 01:25:30 pm
Hi,

Well I've been thinking about this ever since the thread came up about large floatplanes.  I'm still working on my back story but here's a few pics of the progress:



The first float comes together.
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa263/kitnut617/Avro%20Nottingham/AvroNottinghamGR.II002.jpg)

(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa263/kitnut617/Avro%20Nottingham/AvroNottinghamGR.II001.jpg)
Title: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: kitnut617 on September 06, 2007, 01:37:49 pm
And some work on the fuselage and wings:

(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa263/kitnut617/Avro%20Nottingham/AvroNottinghamGR.II005.jpg)

(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa263/kitnut617/Avro%20Nottingham/AvroNottinghamGR.II004.jpg)
Title: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: Captain Canada on September 06, 2007, 02:33:06 pm
:wub: Sweet ! Can't wait to see this baby come together.......I love it so far !

Big floatplanes rule !

 :cheers:  :party:  
Title: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: kitnut617 on September 06, 2007, 03:05:10 pm
Well it's going to be in RCAF colours   B)  
Title: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: Captain Canada on September 06, 2007, 04:57:31 pm
Even better !

 :party:  
Title: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: anthonyp on September 06, 2007, 06:00:22 pm
Looking good!
Title: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: ysi_maniac on September 07, 2007, 05:22:11 am
I like this the way you began.

looking forward
Title: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: Ian the Kiwi Herder on September 23, 2007, 02:01:44 am
This is going to be...... erm...... 'Special' isn't it  :blink:

Ian
Title: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: nev on September 23, 2007, 05:28:34 am
This promises to be spectacular  :drink:  
Title: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: lancer on September 23, 2007, 11:58:44 am
Another one in leaky, err I mean leafy roundels. Looking very good so far.  
Title: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: kitnut617 on September 24, 2007, 10:54:03 am
Well work has seriously cut into my modeling time but I have progress a little bit.

I've sorted out how the front wheel will go in the floats:
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa263/kitnut617/Avro%20Nottingham/AvroNottingham006.jpg)
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa263/kitnut617/Avro%20Nottingham/AvroNottingham001.jpg)
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa263/kitnut617/Avro%20Nottingham/AvroNottingham002.jpg)

and I've started on the tail section.  I have a Lancastrian conversion on the go so I had a spare Lancaster rear turret which I thought would work well into the back story.  I also thought a switch to a pair of .5's would be reasonable and I just happened to have a pair from my Coast Command Liberator project (it's getting a turret left over from my planned Halton conversion)  The Squadron Lancaster canopy set has a repacement turret for the twin .5's.  I've also decided the fin and rudder would have to be bigger because of the floats so I've added a couple of extra ribs above the tailplane and one extra rib below:
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa263/kitnut617/Avro%20Nottingham/AvroNottingham004.jpg)
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa263/kitnut617/Avro%20Nottingham/AvroNottingham003.jpg)
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa263/kitnut617/Avro%20Nottingham/AvroNottingham007.jpg)

here's an idea just how big the floats have worked out to be, the main wheels are Lancaster/Shackleton wheels and the front is a Catalina main wheel:
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa263/kitnut617/Avro%20Nottingham/AvroNottingham005.jpg)

I'm waiting for some bits to arrive so I can finish the fuselage.


 
Title: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: kitnut617 on September 29, 2007, 07:14:08 pm
A bit of progress, it's now looking like something:

(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa263/kitnut617/Avro%20Nottingham/AvroNottingham010.jpg)

Still working out how the canopy will finally look and how the engines will too.
Title: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: Captain Canada on September 29, 2007, 07:20:28 pm
Man, those are big boots ! Looking good !

 :wub:  
Title: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: kitnut617 on September 29, 2007, 07:35:41 pm
Well, I think I've worked it out right, this is supposed to be a cross-over from a Lincoln to a Shackleton.  The Lincoln' all up weight is about 75,000 lbs and a Shackleton' is 86,000 lbs, if you divide those by 62.4245 (weight of water per cubic foot) you need some 'big boots'  For my backstory the all up weight of this is even heavier.
Title: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: Nils on September 30, 2007, 12:12:39 am
i think we found our winner, looks fantastic already  :wub:  
Title: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on October 04, 2007, 05:43:55 pm
What was the source of your floats for this project?  Looking pretty impressive so far.  
Title: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: kitnut617 on October 04, 2007, 08:36:51 pm
Originally I wanted to do a Lancaster floatplane and tried to source some floats.  What I found was the ones I got were too big for a Lancaster so I then developed my Nottingham idea.

These floats come from the Trumpeter 1/24 Spitfire. My plan was to build the Spit in it's normal guise but even though there's most of the parts to do this, the important parts aren't included in the kit.  The Spit kit is really nice and I wanted to build it as it is so I wrote to Trumpeter to see if I could buy some extra floats and was surprised when they said yes I could.  My other alternative was to make some resin ones.
Title: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on October 22, 2007, 10:32:28 pm
Quote
My other alternative was to make some resin ones.
You might want to coordinate the float replication effort with Barry since he has done some of this same work on a slightly smaller scale.  But the price for the extra float parts from Trumpeter for such a low price is a darn good deal.  
Title: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: kitnut617 on October 23, 2007, 05:37:47 am
As I was able to get another set of floats from Trumpeter, I don't think I need to make any out of resin Jeff.  I'm not going to build another big floatplane like this again, except maybe a C-130.  But that will need even bigger floats.

I've hit a snag with my build, I'm on my third attempt at my fuselage plug, I completely screwed up the second go and I'm having to rethink what I've got to do.
I've got to sort this out before I can go any further.

On the plus side, my decals should be arriving sometime this week.
Title: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: kitnut617 on October 23, 2007, 04:01:35 pm
Well the first attempt I planned on using the Lincoln rear fuselage plug which comes with the nose I'm using, but this entailed gobs of filler plus more weight at the back than what I want.  The second attempt, I was doing it somewhat like you describe but I F*%##d it up.  But this time I've had a little bit of time to think it out and I'm going to do it as it might have happened, as simple as possible.  The ideal place to extend the rear fuselage is right behind the bombay and keep the fuselage parallel top to bottom for about an inch and a half, then add the tapering rear fuselage instead of trying to do the plug in the tapered section.
Title: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: kitnut617 on October 31, 2007, 09:09:38 am
Major progress this last weekend,  Wooksta' comment got me thinking in a totally different way.  I've cannibalized another Shackleton kit, I've used it to redo the rear fuselage on the model and used the inner wing parts to extend the models wings;

(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa263/kitnut617/Avro%20Nottingham/AvroNottingham014.jpg)
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa263/kitnut617/Avro%20Nottingham/AvroNottingham013.jpg)
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa263/kitnut617/Avro%20Nottingham/AvroNottingham012.jpg)
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa263/kitnut617/Avro%20Nottingham/AvroNottingham011.jpg)

In all I've added 25mm to the fuselage and 14mm to each of the wings.  And the decals arrived yesterday, it will be a variation of this:

http://www.canmilair.com/products.asp?cat=57&pg=10 (http://www.canmilair.com/products.asp?cat=57&pg=10)
Title: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: kitnut617 on November 05, 2007, 04:49:11 pm
And a bit more progress this weekend.  I went to my brother' and he helped knock up my new engine nacelles, he's got a mini lathe and milling machine:
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa263/kitnut617/Avro%20Nottingham/AvroNottinghamnacelles002.jpg)
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa263/kitnut617/Avro%20Nottingham/AvroNottinghamnacelles001.jpg)
Title: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: Captain Canada on November 05, 2007, 06:07:54 pm
Looking good Robert ! She's really coming along now, eh ?

I like the pics of the nose...looks like Goofy from Disney !

And your choice of markings are to be commended !

 :cheers:  
Title: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: kitnut617 on November 11, 2007, 07:54:57 am
With all the technical problems sorted out the project is progressing very well now, I've got a wing finished and primed, just needs little nicks and scratches filling in:

(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa263/kitnut617/Avro%20Nottingham/AvroNottinghamnacelles004.jpg)
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa263/kitnut617/Avro%20Nottingham/AvroNottinghamnacelles003.jpg)

I hope to have the other wing done in the next few days.
Title: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: kitnut617 on November 14, 2007, 09:03:31 am
I did a trial fit-up of the props and exhaust plus testing out the paint scheme.  It looks just how I envisioned it but the paint isn't going to well though, it's taking too long to dry and is delaying things.

(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa263/kitnut617/Avro%20Nottingham/AvroNottinghamwing001.jpg)
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa263/kitnut617/Avro%20Nottingham/AvroNottinghamwing002.jpg)
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa263/kitnut617/Avro%20Nottingham/AvroNottinghamwing004.jpg)

The exhausts are turned back into the nacelle to where the exhaust turbine (fancy turbocharger) is which would be slaved to the supercharger, then the exhaust exits at the rear of the nacelle.  The air intake just below the spinners are for the carb and cooling air to the exhaust which then exit through the louvered covers
Title: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: nev on November 14, 2007, 09:52:36 am
Like the extensions, give her the look of a Lincoln
Title: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: kitnut617 on November 14, 2007, 10:14:33 am
Quote
Like the extensions, give her the look of a Lincoln
Thanks, it is supposed to be a transition between the Lincoln and Shackleton using elements of both.  One of the things that created quite a problem was the width of the Shack's fuselage and trying to get a Lancaster/Lincoln canopy to fit, I had to 'massage' the top half of the fuselage and also cut the canopy in half and add a strip in-between the two halves.  Carlos' wonderful work on his two-seater project was very instrumental on how to overcome my problem.
Title: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: Brian da Basher on November 14, 2007, 02:00:36 pm
That's one killer project Robert! I really like your efforts on the engines and the red looks great. The contra-props are a very nice touch. This one's gonna look like a million bucks when you get it done!
:thumbsup:
Brian da Basher
Title: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: kitnut617 on November 15, 2007, 12:22:58 pm
Thanks Brian,  

A question, does anyone know what shade of grey the anti-corrosion paint that was used on Canadian Maritime patrollers?
Title: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: Ian the Kiwi Herder on November 17, 2007, 11:58:40 am
Just inspirational... dont worry bout the paint and PLEASE dont rush it, you've done a remarkable job thus far.

Ian
Title: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: ysi_maniac on November 19, 2007, 05:15:29 am
Quote
... you've done a remarkable job thus far...
Absolutely agreed

Wonderful :wub:  :wub:  :wub:  :wub:  
Title: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: kitnut617 on November 25, 2007, 11:25:26 am
More progress this week, I got the fuselage glued together and blended in the nose section and the tail turret is back on after I changed how I was extending the rear fuselage.  I've sorted out the painting now too so that can progess as I continue.

Port wing has the nacelles blended in, just need to do the fronts to them and then on to the radiator duct. Only bummer this week was while playing around trying to fit the canopy, it fell apart. Back to the drawing board with this.

(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa263/kitnut617/Avro%20Nottingham/AvroNottingham018.jpg)
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa263/kitnut617/Avro%20Nottingham/AvroNottingham016.jpg)
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa263/kitnut617/Avro%20Nottingham/AvroNottingham015.jpg)

Cheers...
Title: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: Brian da Basher on November 25, 2007, 11:41:14 am
Wow what a treat to see an update on this epic projet! I wish you success at dealing with the canopy. I can't wait to see this one completed!

Brian da Basher
Title: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: kitnut617 on November 25, 2007, 11:52:19 am
Thanks Brian,  I'm trying to get it done before the dead line, but I'm not sure if I can do it in time, work has reared it's ugly head and is cutting into modeling time.
Title: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: BadersBusCompany on December 03, 2007, 08:10:55 pm
WOW![/size]
Title: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: lancer on December 04, 2007, 02:20:53 am
This is coming along very nicely...
Title: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: kitnut617 on December 04, 2007, 04:13:10 am
Thanks guys, I'm trying to get it done on time.
Title: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: kitnut617 on December 06, 2007, 09:19:03 am
A bit more got done over the last few days, port wing is almost ready for some paint, played around with the colour scheme on the starboard wing, this follows some Lanc schemes which are shown in Patrick Martin's RCAF-Aircraft Finish & Markings 1947-1968;

top side-NMF with aluminum nacelles.
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa263/kitnut617/Avro%20Nottingham/AvroNottinghamcamo001.jpg)

bottom side-anti corrosion grey with aluminum nacells;
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa263/kitnut617/Avro%20Nottingham/AvroNottinghamcamo002.jpg)

ailerons are NMF but the anti-corrosion grey is a bit of guess work, I asked Bill Burns what it might be and he sent a number of colour photos of Lancs which look very light grey so I tried to match it up with whatever grey I had and found that Humbrol 196 sort of comes close.
Title: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: kitnut617 on December 14, 2007, 08:55:47 am
Well, I've not been able to finish this in time, some difficulties arose and of course it's the festive season, been to a number of Xmas parties plus a sudden influx of work.

But I've managed to get it this far.  Starboard wing is almost finished, I needed to see if I could actually do the scheme I wanted to do so I concentrated on this wing first.  Metalic colours have always been my bugbear and this didn't change while trying to do this, I must have painted then sanded the wing about a dozen times until I got to where it is now, I'm still not totally happy with it, close inspection reveals lots of problems but I had to get on with the project.  Port wing was well on it's way when disaster struck, a large chunk of the radiator housing broke off, I'm not sure why this happen but I had decided to speed things up and use a putty that wasn't so fluid as Tamiya White putty (which also takes a while to dry, especially if you put it on thick.  I used Revell Plasto but the tube I have is just about finished and the putty came out a little hard but it was still spreadable.  It looks like the putty didn't bond with some of the plastic though, anyway I had to start again.
The tailplanes and fin & rudders are finished and I was going to glue them to the fuselage.  I had spent a bit of time on the fuselage sanding it down, primer, more sanding and I thought it looked quite good, but once I gave it a coat of polished aluminum.... oh m'god... scratches, gouges, file marks everywhere.  I've got a lot to do to this to make it half arse decent.

Anyway some pics of where I'm at, I'll keep plugging away at this as I want to finish it, it'll be the first model totally finish in well over a year if I do.

(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa263/kitnut617/Avro%20Nottingham/AvroNottinghamDec14th001.jpg)
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa263/kitnut617/Avro%20Nottingham/AvroNottinghamDec14th002.jpg)
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa263/kitnut617/Avro%20Nottingham/AvroNottinghamDec14th003.jpg)
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa263/kitnut617/Avro%20Nottingham/AvroNottinghamDec14th004.jpg)
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa263/kitnut617/Avro%20Nottingham/AvroNottinghamDec14th005.jpg)

Cheers.....
Title: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: kitnut617 on December 17, 2007, 09:28:00 am
Spent the weekend filling and sanding all the scratches and gouges I discovered when I painted the fuselage polished aluminum, plus on the port wing a whole bunch showed up with the first coat of silver applied.  I tried using Mr.Surfacer 500 for the first serious time and to say I'm suitable impressed would be an understatement, most being repair with one coat.  I have some Mr.Surfacer 1200 too but I don't think I will have to use it.

Port wing propellers have all been cleaned up and polished for painting too, so quite a productive weekend.
Title: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: Brian da Basher on December 17, 2007, 01:27:02 pm
Wow that's impressive work! I'm just bowled over! Your Nottingham looks killer in those maple leaf roundels and SAR markings!
:thumbsup:
Brian da Basher
Title: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: Captain Canada on December 17, 2007, 03:49:47 pm
Quote
Your Nottingham looks killer in those maple leaf roundels and SAR markings!
 
Come on, Brian.....a pile of sticks would look good in those markings !

But I do have to agree with how impressive that beast is beginning to look. She's huge !

Keep plugging away....once the haze of Christmas booze clears, you'll have a full two weeks to finish her off !

 :cheers:  
Title: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: kitnut617 on December 30, 2007, 02:46:17 pm
I've been concentrating on the fuselage this last few days, got some basic cockpit detail done but I didn't go berserk at it, you can't see too much through the canopy.

(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa263/kitnut617/Avro%20Nottingham/CockpitDetail001.jpg)
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa263/kitnut617/Avro%20Nottingham/CockpitDetail004.jpg)
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa263/kitnut617/Avro%20Nottingham/CockpitDetail006.jpg)

The little pegs I've glued temporarily to the fuselage side is because I pinch the fuselage in so it would blend with the Lincoln nose better and it cramped the front end of the cockpit a bit, the pegs are to hold the canopy in place while the glue dries because I had to squeeze it in to match the fuselage and I wasn't going to hold it for goodness knows how long before the glue did dry.

But what an exercise in utter frustration I've had today, I spent a good four hours trying to fit the bomb aimers window, the Flightpath clear parts are so thin there's no substance to them when holding them for cutting, and I had to be very careful as you only get one clear part per item.  Still I got it done in the end.

Robert
Title: Re: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: kitnut617 on January 06, 2008, 03:40:57 pm
Update!!  wings are on, cockpit is done -----------  almost there  ;)  better photos tomorrow, just wanted to see how the new feature works (and it's just great, upload straight from my computer, no more photobucket  ;D )
Title: Re: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: kitnut617 on January 07, 2008, 12:05:18 pm
OK as promised, better photos.  I'm going to download from photobucket though, the other pics are way too small.
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa263/kitnut617/Avro%20Nottingham/AvroNottingham023.jpg)
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa263/kitnut617/Avro%20Nottingham/AvroNottingham024.jpg)
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa263/kitnut617/Avro%20Nottingham/AvroNottingham026.jpg)
Title: Re: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: kitnut617 on January 07, 2008, 05:08:30 pm
The SAR stripe at the back presented a bit of a problem, really had to  :banghead: to figure out what to do.  The decal that comes on the sheet I used (which is for a Lancaster), is just a length of parallel lines (blue/orange/blue) and I did the sides and top all in one first.  But at the fuselage corners the decal bunched up quite a bit at the rear and I had to use a very sharp blade to carefully cut the decal so that it would lay flat on the fuselage. The bit around the underside of the fuselage was quite a bit different and I only had a small amount of decal left to do the job.  Luckily I do AutoCad, so I did some measuring and made a little drawing of the parallel decal I had left, and then experimented with just how much I needed to cut out from one side to make it into a curve.  After a couple of tries, I found the optimum amount needed to be removed by printing off the drawing on paper and laying it on the fuselage.  I then transfered it over to the bit of decal, cut out the appropriate triangular shapes and applied it to the model.  It came out quite good in the end.
Title: Re: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: Captain Canada on January 07, 2008, 05:34:00 pm
What a beauty ! I still can't get over how big the thing is.....you sure it's 72nd scale ?

 :wub:
Title: Re: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: kitnut617 on January 07, 2008, 05:42:41 pm
Yup! 1/72 scale. Wing span is 21 1/4", length is 14 5/8" (not including the gun barrels in the turrets)  I have added to the original kit, 28mm to the wing span (14mm extra at each wing root) and 30mm to the fuselage behind the bomb bay.  I'm not sure how much longer the nose is over the original, I'll have to get another of my Shackletons out and measure it.

Thanks for you comments Cap' I appreciate them.
Title: Re: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: Captain Canada on January 08, 2008, 04:49:07 pm
Yup....that's big !  Any idea when the floats are going on ?
Title: Re: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: kitnut617 on January 08, 2008, 05:51:07 pm
Hopefully in the next two-three days,  definitely before the dead line  ;D  I'm about half way through assembling the second float.  I've still got to put the turret on and clear parts for the nose and tail turret.
Title: Re: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: lancer on January 09, 2008, 05:12:04 am
She surely is a beauty Kitnut.
Title: Re: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: kitnut617 on January 09, 2008, 10:26:29 am
Thanks guys!
Title: Re: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: Captain Canada on January 09, 2008, 04:55:02 pm
So the bomb bay is remaining the same size ? I guess it's kind of a moot point, if the a/c is a SAR bird....but is it going on the same premise as the Lancs ? Retired bomber ?

Title: Re: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: kitnut617 on January 09, 2008, 06:03:02 pm
In the backstory (which is still under development [and I hope to get this finished before the dead line too] ) it will be a retired RAF bomber ( the serial number was selected after an email chat with Phil Butler who pointed out there was a gap of about 25 numbers that weren't used in the Lincoln order) , and specifically a Pacific arena bomber.  The bomb bay is based on the MR.2 which is larger, I should say longer, than the MR.3's.  The bomb bay starts at just behind the front radar fairing and finishes just before the port entry door, something I added as I needed a way to board the aircraft from the floats.  Incidently, this was the cause of one of the many problems I had while building the model.  The model is based on the Shackleton kit and I wanted it to be the cross-over link between a Lancaster/Lincoln and the Shack', the big difference between the Lanc'/Lincoln & Shack' is the fuselage width, The Lanc'/Lincoln scaling out at 6 feet out to out the longeron stiffeners just above the bomb bay, whereas the Shack' scales out at 8 feet.  In my estimation the Shack could carry two Tallboys side by side and inside the bomb bay doors (measuring a Paragon Tallboy I have) and was actually quite capable of lifting the weight in real life (more about this in my backstory).

Trying to fit the canopy was a real exercise in trial and error, it's a classic case of looks perfect in profile but doesn't work a darn in plan.  In the latest pics you can see just above the little side windows what looks like a bend in the fuselage, well that's exactly what it is.  I had to bend the fuselage sides inwards quite a bit to get the fuselage section to work with what I wanted to do with the canopy.  But it did blend in nicely with the rear fuselage just aft of the starboard entry door, the fuselage pinches in quite sharply here in real life, so I didn't have to do anything to how the tailplane fitted.  To explain better, most of the Shack' fuselage is a trapeziod in section, the bottom side being longer than the top side, but just aft of the entry door the bottom side pinches in until the fuselage sides are almost vertical, which is why the Lanc' tail turret I've put on practically falls into place at the usual tail end splice point on both types of aircraft.

Title: Re: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: Captain Canada on January 09, 2008, 07:05:51 pm
Sweet....giant bomb bays rule ! Also dig the idea of bridging the gap between the Lanc/ Linc and the Shak.

One thing I might suggest, tho, after looking at the pics ( as suggested by you ) is to draw in some panle lines with a pencil. Around the cockpit and over the nacelles etc. I did that once ( or twice ! ) and with the magic of digital photography, it was pretty hard to tell that they were complete fakes ! Just adds some depth to the pics is all, I guess.

Title: Re: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: kitnut617 on January 09, 2008, 08:10:51 pm

One thing I might suggest, tho, after looking at the pics ( as suggested by you ) is to draw in some panle lines with a pencil. Around the cockpit and over the nacelles etc. I did that once ( or twice ! ) and with the magic of digital photography, it was pretty hard to tell that they were complete fakes ! Just adds some depth to the pics is all, I guess.



That's a good idea, I'll try to put some on but my priority is to get the model finished first.  If I've got time I'll do that, I did attempt to do a re-scribe but I soon gave that up as I've not done anything like that before.  Same with the painting, my air brush skills are practically non-existant so all painting is done by hairy stick.
Title: Re: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: Captain Canada on January 09, 2008, 08:44:10 pm
Hey, nothing wrong with painting with a hairy stick ! I still do most of mine with one....airbrushing is getting easier for me, tho, but I still enjoy sitting about, watching tele and sipping a pop whilst painting and building. Kinda like right now !

Title: Re: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: nev on January 10, 2008, 09:38:42 am
Sweet!  And she's not even finished yet!  :ph34r:
Title: Re: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: Brian da Basher on January 10, 2008, 01:46:04 pm
Absolutely gorgeous, kitnut! You've really done yourself proud with this amazing project!

Brian da Basher
Title: Re: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: kitnut617 on January 10, 2008, 07:50:41 pm
a sneak peek! I now have two almost identical floats and I've done a trial fit-up.  It looks just like I envisioned it would.
Title: Re: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: Captain Canada on January 10, 2008, 08:20:43 pm
" Those are some big boots, baby "

-Elvis
Title: Re: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: kitnut617 on January 10, 2008, 08:57:45 pm
" Those are some big boots, baby "

-Elvis

If I've done my calculations right, these should be good for about 95,000 lbs.  A Shackleton' all up weight is 86,000 lbs so using that as a base I've allowed extra for the floats and additional fuel etc.  With water weighing at approx' 62.5 lbs a cubic foot, I needed something that displaces 1520 cubic feet.  For comparison the Short Shetland' all up weight was about 78,000 lbs and it's a bit bigger than this I think.  On these floats I've allowed for a draft between 3'-6" and 4'-0" at the deepest section of the float, which scales out at around 10 feet deep at the step incidently, the float scales out to 10 feet wide at the widest point too. I had to space them out a bit too because the bomb bay doors protrude out quite a bit when they're opened, so needed the extra room for the diagonal bracing that will be going on.
Title: Re: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: kitnut617 on January 13, 2008, 02:04:15 pm
I can see the light at the end of the tunnel, almost there, just the turrets and bomb aimers window, the wheels and some more decals to go on.

Last couple of photos before the final presentation on Tuesday.

Title: Re: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: kitnut617 on January 13, 2008, 02:07:09 pm
couple more.
Title: Re: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: Captain Canada on January 13, 2008, 04:31:48 pm
No wonder that thing is so big......it's been on Cenrum Select this whole time ! Now with more boot building Iron !

 :rolleyes:

Looking good, Robert......can't wait to see the final presentation !

Title: Re: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: kitnut617 on January 15, 2008, 04:41:08 pm
Final photos:  I managed to get it done in time but I ran out of daylight to take photos outside.  I thoroughly enjoyed doing this build and it's a milestone for me too, the first 'finished' model in nearly two years.  I hope everyone likes the finished product.

Cheers,
Robert
Title: Re: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: kitnut617 on January 15, 2008, 04:42:42 pm
2nd group:
Title: Re: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: kitnut617 on January 15, 2008, 04:44:30 pm
3rd group:
Title: Re: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: kitnut617 on January 15, 2008, 04:45:41 pm
4th group:
Title: Re: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: GTX on January 15, 2008, 05:32:08 pm
Where'd that jaw dropping smiley go?!

Wow!!!

Regards,

Greg
Title: Re: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: kitnut617 on January 15, 2008, 08:01:48 pm
The Backstory.

Avro Nottingham, an alternative history.



In 1942 the Air Ministry realized that a requirement for a Very Long Range, Very Heavy Bomber was needed, specifically for the use in the Pacific arena.  The requirement was for an aircraft to take a 20,000 lb load for 5000 miles.  The industry responded with designs but it was soon realized that such an aircraft would not be available for operational use in much less than five years time.  The RAF suggested an in-trim bomber would be a better option for the immediate future and Avro, Handley Page and Shorts were instructed to do some studies to see if any of their aircraft could be modified into a longer ranged aircraft.

At that time Avro had their Lancaster well into production and the Avro designers went back to their drawing boards to create an improved Lancaster, which received the designation of Mk. IV & V (these were later renamed Lincoln).  The RAF planners had been following the Pacific campaign closely and based their ideas on using islands that were close to Japan as bases and so a Medium to Long Range Bomber would probably be sufficient.  The design work was well advanced when events in the Pacific brought everything to a halt.

In July of 1944 a stumbling block happened to make the Air Ministry rethink their whole strategy over the Pacific war.  The Japanese High Command had been informed by the German Intelligence of a new long, range bomber the USA was building, which turned out to be the B-29, and the High Command realized that such an aircraft would soon be within range of their homelands.  They began to look carefully at the USAís island hopping campaign with this new information and surmised, correctly, where the next attack was going to be, the Marianas.  They secretly re-enforced the islands, which came as a major surprise to the attacking forces, to the extent that the Allies had to withdraw after four months of very heavy fighting.

The Japanese then strengthened all major islands that came within the radius of the B-29 to the Japanese homelands, which had a major effect of all future operations.  The RAF was very concerned about this development as it practically nullified the Medium/Long Range Bomber in this arena. 

At a high level meeting held at the Air Ministry it was suggested that the RAF could use flying boats as bombers instead and operate them from small islands closer to the Japanese mainland (and also inside of the Japanese circle of control) the idea that there would be a number of these small bases and would be used on a rotational basis, never being at one base for more than a few weeks at a time to circumvent being discovered.   But the RAF only had Sunderlands, which had the range but not the load capacity.  It was then that Avro made a suggestion that they could design and equip their Lancasters with floats, and a study was quickly set up on the feasibility of such development.  Once again the Air Ministry stepped in requiring more speed and load capacity so Avro developed their Lancaster Mk. V by widening the fuselage and offered a version powered by Napier Sabre engines. Napier responded by offering their latest engine spec, the Sabre VII of approximately 3000hp, and were instructed to develop it as quickly as possible, and as an alternative supply of engines, Rolls Royce were instructed to develop their new 24 cylinder ĎHí engine and give it top priority. Emphasis was given to standardize the engine nacelle to except either engine, which was simplified by the use of leading edge radiator ducts between each pair of nacelles.  At this time the airframe changes were sufficient enough for the aircraft to warrant a new name and Nottingham was selected and the Sabre engined version would be known as a GR.I and the new RR engined version would be called a GR.II.

As the Sabre was already in production in itís Mk.IV version, these were installed on the first prototype to quicken development time and was the first to fly.  It was found to be grossly underpowered during itís thorough testing, plus a few short comings arose, one was stability during sea trials and another was it needed more elevator authority, consequently only three GR.Iís were built before all development concentrated on the GR.II where the airframes were changed in light of the short comings.  This entailed a six foot extension to the rear fuselage just behind the bomb bay and three foot three inches was added to the inner wing section at the wing root which spread the floats further apart.  This had a side effect of being able to open the bomb bay doors further allowing the possible carriage of two Tallboy bombs, stored side by side in the bomb bay. 



With all the changes the GR.II finally got airborne at the end of January 1945 and production aircraft were quickly rushed to operational squadrons, two of which were RCAF squadrons and as they converted to the Nottingham were dispatched to the West Coast of Canada at the end of 1945.  These squadrons were used with great effect, as their capability of carrying two 10,000 lb deep penetration bombs, enabled them to attack two targets in one mission, which was usually a deeply re-enforced bunker that the Japanese had built in numerous quantities.  Fortunately, the war didnít progress much later than June 1946 so only a small number of squadrons were equipped with the Nottingham and when the war ended, all production ended with a grand total of 33 being built.  A few months after the warí end, the Canadian squadrons were ordered back to Canada and on their arrival, their Nottinghams were flown to a remote lake in the BC Interior and mothballed for future use.  They were re-activated a few years later and used as Maritime Patrol aircraft as the worsening relationship between the Soviet Union and the rest of the Allies reached a boiling point.  They patrolled the Canadian coastline for a good many years after but their numbers gradually dwindled as one after another was cannibalized to keep the others airborne and the last one in service was FM359 with 111 CU until it was SoC in 1960.  It had been converted to SAR duties and although it retained it guns, no ammunition was ever carried and a few months before being SoC, had all itís guns removed.  This project depicts the aircraft a few weeks after being converted to SAR configuration.
Title: Re: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: Captain Canada on January 15, 2008, 09:52:12 pm
On the advice of my lawyers I c-c-c--c-can n-n-n-n-n-n-nolonger c-comment o-o-on th-th-th-th-this pppp-pp-p-pr-pro-proj-pp-project.

Sorry.
Title: Re: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: Glenn Gilbertson on January 16, 2008, 02:48:07 am
Great idea beautifully modelled - a magnificent beast! A plausible backstory as well. Lakes throughout Canada would have boasted houseboats converted from those floats after the Nottinghams were scrapped! Well done kitnut -whiffing at its best.
Title: Re: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: Mossie on January 16, 2008, 03:18:48 am
I've been waiting for this one Robert!  Fantastic! :wub:
Title: Re: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: nev on January 16, 2008, 04:50:05 am
Sweeeeeeeeet!  :wub:
Title: Re: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: kitnut617 on January 16, 2008, 07:48:48 am
Thanks everyone, I really enjoyed this one and it certainly got me out of a rut (I understand where you are coming from Simon), I have a pile of started models over the last couple of years but I never actually finished one until this one.

Robert
Title: Re: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: lenny100 on January 16, 2008, 08:14:55 am
  :o what a fantastic project  :wub:
Title: Re: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: Hobbes on January 16, 2008, 12:43:56 pm
Well done, sir! The model looks great, and I like the fact you really thought it all through, e.g. calculating the right size and position for the floats.
 :wub: :wub: :wub:
Title: Re: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: kitnut617 on January 16, 2008, 01:38:28 pm
Thanks Hobbes & Lenny
Title: Re: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: Brian da Basher on January 16, 2008, 01:59:57 pm
Yowsa Robert that Nottingham really came out superbly! That's gotta be one of the best multi-engine whiffs of the year!!! Take a well-deserved bow!

Brian da Basher
Title: Re: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: Captain Canada on January 16, 2008, 08:48:44 pm
Yup....what a sweetheart ! That's one big, beautiful bird, Robert. Very impressive !

 :wub:
Title: Re: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: Mike Wren on January 17, 2008, 06:03:13 am
crikey! what a job! love the steps...  :wub:
Title: Re: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: kitbasher on January 20, 2008, 11:55:41 am
Blimey!!!!!
What with this and that Panther on Britmodeller I don't know why I bother with my piddling efforts.
Superb - well done.
All you need to do now is a Mk 1 in wartime Coastal Command colours!!
 ;D ;D
Title: Re: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: kitnut617 on January 20, 2008, 12:57:08 pm

All you need to do now is a Mk 1 in wartime Coastal Command colours!!
 ;D ;D

Hmm!  well maybe at some much later time, I've got a couple of other ideas I'm working on right now.

We had a couple of inches of fresh snow yesterday so I thought I'd play around and see what this would look like as if it was in water (I'm not clever enough to try doing it in Photoshop or whatever you call it)


Thanks again for all your comments everyone, realy appreciated.

Robert
Title: Re: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: Thorvic on January 20, 2008, 02:53:37 pm
Shouldn't it be on Skis not Floats if its landing on snow ?   ;D

Seriously its a very nice build Rob
Title: Re: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: kitnut617 on January 20, 2008, 03:57:36 pm
Shouldn't it be on Skis not Floats if its landing on snow ?   ;D

Seriously its a very nice build Rob

Thanks,  but it's funny you should make a comment like that, 'cause while looking through Patrick Martin' book called 'Royal Canadian Air Force-Aircraft Finish & Markings 1947-1968 trying to find some appropriate schemes for this project, I came across a photo of a Grumman Albatross which has landed on snow and wheels up (page 89) Which brings up a couple of questions, would snow support an large floatplane like this? And does snow actually support a floatplane/flying boat better?  The photo would tend to suggest that it can.

Robert 
Title: Re: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: Hobbes on January 21, 2008, 12:03:07 am
Depends on the snow, I guess. Loose snow is less dense than water so the aircraft would sink deeper, hard-packed snow would be hazardous to land on due to ice ridges.
Title: Re: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: kitnut617 on January 23, 2008, 12:06:59 pm
My friend James, who we all know here as 'jamatari', worked some magic and popped one of the photos of the Nottingham into photoshop and created this for me. I think he did a marvelous job.
Title: Re: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: Captain Canada on January 23, 2008, 03:31:34 pm
I just love theose photos of her in the snow....wicked ! She just looks right, maybe 'cause she looks like she's in her element, or maybe 'cause the floats are half buried, making her look like a sportscar ! Well, maybe not a sportscar, but certainly less 'clunky'.

The photoshop job looks pretty good as well !

As for the Albatross, they called it a tri-phibian. It had a chine ( or something ? ) down the center of the hull, as well as little ski thingies on the floats. I'm pretty sure Leading Edge did decals and a resin set for it back in his early days.

Cheers !
Title: Re: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: John Howling Mouse on January 31, 2008, 08:00:55 pm
Wow, just catching up on prior GB's and this one sure bowled me over.  The most impressive thing (to me) about your models is how you tackle everything and anything with unlimited courage.  A fearless modeler.

And jamatari's Photoshop: doesn't that just evoke the fantastic box cover art from the old Matchbox models?!

Can't wait to see your next project finished, too!
Title: Re: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: kitnut617 on January 31, 2008, 10:52:44 pm
Wow, just catching up on prior GB's and this one sure bowled me over.  The most impressive thing (to me) about your models is how you tackle everything and anything with unlimited courage.  A fearless modeler.

And jamatari's Photoshop: doesn't that just evoke the fantastic box cover art from the old Matchbox models?!

Can't wait to see your next project finished, too!

Thanks Barry.
Title: Re: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: ericr on August 09, 2013, 08:51:53 am

very beautiful floatplane indeed!

I discover it only now, through the Wimpy thread, but I had noticed the small picture by your name, without being able to identify what it was : now I know!

One of the most beautiful aspects of it is the two-wheel per float system.

Title: Re: Avro Nottingham Gr.ii
Post by: kitnut617 on August 10, 2013, 08:44:16 am
Thanks Mate --