avatar_seadude

B-52 bomber tail section with rearward firing Stinger missiles?

Started by seadude, September 04, 2022, 06:52:42 PM

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seadude

I may have read about this long, long ago, but I'm not 100% sure.
Was there ever a plan during the 90's or early 2000's to modify the tail section on B-52G/H bombers to fire rearward firing Stinger anti-aircraft missiles?
Modeling isn't just about how good the gluing or painting, etc. looks. It's also about how creative and imaginative you can be with a subject.

kerick

I think it would need a booster rocket to overcome the forward speed of the B-52. Personally I've never heard of that idea. It would be interesting to see it happen.
There's someone in my head, but it's not me!

Dizzyfugu

Never heard of this, I just know of the rather weird "Pye Wacket" defensive AAM project for the B-70 from the late Fifties?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pye_Wacket

Gondor

Quote from: kerick on September 04, 2022, 08:49:27 PMI think it would need a booster rocket to overcome the forward speed of the B-52. Personally I've never heard of that idea. It would be interesting to see it happen.

Not when its a reaward fireing defensive missile.

Gondor
My Ability to Imagine is only exceeded by my Imagined Abilities

Gondor's Modelling Rule Number Three: Everything will fit perfectly untill you apply glue...

I know it's in a book I have around here somewhere....

Steel Penguin

i think,  this may be simaler to the rear defense suite in " flight of the old dog"  but its been years since i read it as well.
but Wikiying that may help.
Redone 19/08/15  the things you learn, give your mind the wings to fly, and the chains to hold yourself steady added 07/10/18   take off and nuke the site form orbit, nope, time for the real thing, CAM and gridfire, call special circumstances.   wow, its like freefalling into the Geofront

Leading Observer

Quote from: Steel Penguin on September 05, 2022, 02:23:09 AMi think,  this may be simaler to the rear defense suite in " flight of the old dog"  but its been years since i read it as well.
but Wikiying that may help.

That was my immediate thought as well SP
LO


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PR19_Kit

There was a plan for rearward firing missiles to be fitted to the P6M Seamaster in place of its tail gun at one stage. There's a drawing of the missile installation in the definitive book on the P6M, but I'm 120 miles from my copy just now.

I'm not sure if the missiles were Stingers or not, I think they were actually 'winders.
Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

Regards
Kit

seadude

Quote from: Steel Penguin on September 05, 2022, 02:23:09 AMi think,  this may be simaler to the rear defense suite in " flight of the old dog"  but its been years since i read it as well.
but Wikiying that may help.

That could be what I may have read or thought about. May have to get the book out again and read it.
Anyway...........I wonder if Hellfire missiles could be modified with the seeker of an AIM-9 missile and used in the tail section of a B-52?
But I doubt the tail section could hold very many of them.
Modeling isn't just about how good the gluing or painting, etc. looks. It's also about how creative and imaginative you can be with a subject.

jcf

Grumman Bushfire rear defense system for the P6M.

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PR19_Kit

Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

Regards
Kit

sandiego89

#10
Quote from: PR19_Kit on September 05, 2022, 03:11:08 AMThere was a plan for rearward firing missiles to be fitted to the P6M Seamaster in place of its tail gun at one stage. There's a drawing of the missile installation in the definitive book on the P6M, but I'm 120 miles from my copy just now.

I'm not sure if the missiles were Stingers or not, I think they were actually 'winders.

I'll save Kit the drive to check his references, or to have his butler pull it from the library. 

Stated to be Grumman proposal G-143 for the P6M SeaMaster, with 4 semi-guided missiles in a rear facing configuration, with one "in the chamber" and 3 reloads in rotary launcher.  Sparrow III derived guidance package. 



source: Page 154 of the excellent "Martin P6M SeaMaster by Stan Piet/Al Raithel

I agree that the original post is likely remembering the fictional "Flight of the Old Dog" book, which was a cracking read, subsequent ones got increasingly implausible for me.   

*edit, jcf beat me to it , but glad i saved the hassle of Kit having to have his Butler pull it down from the library*
Dave "Sandiego89"
Chesapeake, Virginia, USA

Pellson

Noting that there indeed seems to be booster packs on the rear of the missiles, as suggested above. To me, that seems quite logical as the missile, in order to be controllable, must have enough speed thorough the air as soon as it is ejected from the mothership, and as it is being ejected in the opposite direction the the mum, it will have to match that speed PLUS the air speed requirement for its own wings to carry it, at ejection. And that is quite some speed!
Makes me also wonder how you intended to vent the rocket gasses at launch as they would counteract the propulsion of the mum if not properly performed.

Really interesting concept and drawings, though!  :thumbsup:
Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition!

Old Wombat

Quote from: Pellson on September 06, 2022, 02:33:35 AMMakes me also wonder how you intended to vent the rocket gasses at launch as they would counteract the propulsion of the mum if not properly performed.

Really interesting concept and drawings, though!  :thumbsup:

If it was me: Side vents angled to the rear; they'd give a momentary increase in IR signature but the over-all effect would be to accelerate the parent aircraft, if anything. ;)

Strangely, the last sentence wasn't showing in the post & I only saw it in the "Quoted" box ... until I posted this. :unsure:
Has a life outside of What-If & wishes it would stop interfering!

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PR19_Kit

Looking at that drawing again, the missiles don't look much like anything of the period, certainly not a 'winder, as I surmised.

Oddly they look a bit like BAe ALAARM with a booster on the tail, but 25-30 years too early.  ;D
Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

Regards
Kit

Old Wombat

The missiles look most like the Soviet AA-7 or AA-8 missiles, maybe AA-3, rather than US missiles & may have been for "illustrative purposes only", rather than any specific missile system.

My admittedly poor Google-fu was unable to turn up any similar Western designs.

However, I did find out that AMRAAM (AIM-120), developed in the 1980's & introduced in the early 1990's, offers a better, easier solution;

Quote from: Carlo KoppOn the brighter side, ... a competitive shoot-off ended between Hughes and Raytheon for the Amraam (Advanced Medium Range Air-Air Missile), Hughes winning the contract. Amraam is the replacement for the Western air forces' radar guided Sparrow. The weapon is a fire and forget, active radar guided missile with inertial midcourse guidance, enabling launches against targets pursuing the launch aircraft.
ACTIVE AND SEMIACTIVE RADAR MISSILE GUIDANCE
Has a life outside of What-If & wishes it would stop interfering!

"The purpose of all War is Peace" - St. Augustine

veritas ad mortus veritas est