avatar_Weaver

Handley Page Hampden and Hereford

Started by Weaver, June 15, 2009, 08:02:05 AM

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Weaver

Couldn't see a pre-exisiting thread for this: if there is, then please merge it.

Hampden idea: A-26-style low-level intruder/flak-basher, designed to launch low-level attacks on flak batteries as they open up on the Lancs, Halifaxs etc...

Hercules engines
Solid nose with 12 x .303s
Boulton Paul quad .303 dorsal turret
Ventral gunner replaced by two fixed, slightly depressed .303s (post-straffing run retaliation-supressors)
12 x 3" RPs (at least)
Long-range fuel tank in the top half of the bomb bay, with racks/tubes for small booby-trap AP bombs on the bottom of it.

The idea is the MGs kill/drive off the AAA gun crew, the bomblets stop them from coming back, and the rockets damage/destroy the gun/ammo.

Of course, you could fit bigger, different guns (6 x 20mm?) and drop the specific anti-AAA exotica to make a general purpose intruder.
"We thank you, but this diversion is not true. Things never happened thus."

"Oh, but it IS true. Things need not have happened to be true. Tales and dreams are
the shadow-truths that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."

- Sandman: A Midsummer Night's Dream, by Neil Gaiman

sequoiaranger

#1
Here is an example of your concept--Mine was a 1/96 Hampden (FROG) that I "converted" into a 1/72-scale bomber-destroyer to defend Liechtenstein's airspace (Swiss protectorate). The Hampden was known as the "Flying Suitcase"---my down-sized Handley-Page Helvetican was known as the "Flying Briefcase". The two protruding guns are a pair of Bofors 40mm. I used Mosquito wings and engines, as the planform is the same as the Hampden. Pointed spinners are from a P-38 (FROG?). Camo is a sequoiaranger original "alpine" scheme.
My mind is like a compost heap: both "fertile" and "rotten"!

Weaver

Cheers Sequoiaranger - I thought I'd seen something along these lines on here but I couldn't recall the details: nice model!  :thumbsup:
"We thank you, but this diversion is not true. Things never happened thus."

"Oh, but it IS true. Things need not have happened to be true. Tales and dreams are
the shadow-truths that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."

- Sandman: A Midsummer Night's Dream, by Neil Gaiman

kitbasher

#3
Don't see many Hampden whifs, do we.  Since getting the whif bug I must admit I've wondered about a Hampden night-fighter circa 1940-41.  The Luftwaffe operated several bomber types in the night fighter role, but the RAF didn't (I really don't think the Mosquito counts, as it was a multi-role type).  But if they had done - and I guess it would be early in the war as a temporary expedient, the Hampden has always struck me as the one type that would seem to fit the bill.  
I guess it's the narrow fuselage and almost fighter-type cockpit that leads me to that conclusion.  I can imagine an NF Hampden being fitted with early AI radar and nose mounted guns.  One other crew member - probably in the rear gunner's position - defensive armament removed and, of course, no bomb load.
Damn - feel obliged to do one now!  Anyone else come up with - or already done - something similar?  Any pics?  ;D ;D

Edit 17/6/09:
1 - 'The Luftwaffe operated several bomber types in the night fighter role, but the RAF didn't' - wasn't thinking of the Blenheim when I originally posted.
2 - 'I can imagine an NF Hampden being fitted with early AI radar and nose mounted guns.' - something akin to the Boulton-Paul nose fitted to RAF Havocs.
3 - 'One other crew member - probably in the rear gunner's position' - meant to clarify as radar oporator, and facing forwards in the rear gunner's position.
;D ;D
What If? & Secret Project SIG member.
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jcf

Drawings and info posted on the H-P Centenary Build thread.
http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,20352.0.html

HP 52 Hampden family variations.

HP 53 design was ordered by the Swedes and built in parallel with the HP 52, aircraft was never delivered, rather it was converted to Dagger engines to act as the prototype for the Hereford.

M.15/35, shore based torpedo-bomber, HP 52 wings and tail grafted to a new wider fuselage (to allow for mid-upper circular turret), tail boom increased in cross-section where it mated with the main fuselage, torpedo carried internally.

Doable from the Airfix Hampden.

As to other Hampden variations:
L4032 was re-engined with Wright Cyclones and X3115 was completed with Cyclones as the prototype for the H.P. 62 Hampden II.

In November 1938 H-P put forth proposals for a variant with a wider fuselage and equipped with either Merlin XX or Hercules engines.

Jon

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Sense doesn't come into it. People are
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sequoiaranger

>M.15/35, shore based torpedo-bomber, HP 52 wings and tail grafted to a new wider fuselage (to allow for mid-upper circular turret),<

Beginning to look like a twin-tailed Martin Baltimore!
My mind is like a compost heap: both "fertile" and "rotten"!

GTX

My quick interpretation of Weaver's initial idea (though with rear guns kept as original) - I have been thinking of something similar as well:



Regards,

Greg
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

The Rat

"My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought, cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives." Hedley Lamarr, Blazing Saddles

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kitnut617

#8
Quote from: kitbasher on June 15, 2009, 09:06:11 AM
Don't see many Hampden whifs, do we.  Since getting the whif bug I must admit I've wondered about a Hampden night-fighter circa 1940-41.  The Luftwaffe operated several bomber types in the night fighter role, but the RAF didn't (I really don't think the Mosquito counts, as it was a multi-role type).  But if they had done - and I guess it would be early in the war as a temporary expedient, the Hampden has always struck me as the one type that would seem to fit the bill.  
I guess it's the narrow fuselage and almost fighter-type cockpit that leads me to that conclusion.  I can imagine an NF Hampden being fitted with early AI radar and nose mounted guns.  One other crew member - probably in the rear gunner's position - defensive armament removed and, of course, no bomb load.
Damn - feel obliged to do one now!  Anyone else come up with - or already done - something similar?  Any pics?  ;D ;D


It had the same speed as the Blenheim (266mph) so it could've been converted, but I think the engines would have had to be upgraded I think for later developments, Taurus or even Hercules would have given it quite a boost.

Out of interest, the original Halifax concept was an enlarged Hampden with tadpole look to it so that would give you a good idea what a widened Hampden would look like.
If I'm not building models, I'm out riding my dirtbike

Weaver

Quote from: GTX on July 03, 2009, 03:20:24 PM
My quick interpretation of Weaver's initial idea (though with rear guns kept as original) - I have been thinking of something similar as well:



Regards,

Greg

Wow - that certainly looks the part - cheers GTX!  :thumbsup:
"We thank you, but this diversion is not true. Things never happened thus."

"Oh, but it IS true. Things need not have happened to be true. Tales and dreams are
the shadow-truths that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."

- Sandman: A Midsummer Night's Dream, by Neil Gaiman

GTX

Another idea: an anti-tank or anti-shipping version armed with a large calibre cannon.  Note the lower gunner is removed to accommodate this.



Regards,

Greg
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

GTX

How about a pure fighter (well, maybe something more akin to a Beaufighter or Bf-110) Hampden (note pair of 20mm cannon in belly and at least two .303s in front of pilot):



Regards,

Greg
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

Weaver

Quote from: apophenia on July 17, 2009, 01:54:24 PM
Quote from: GTX on July 17, 2009, 01:46:22 PMNote the lower gunner is removed to accommodate this.

Cool! Deleting the lower gunner's station would make a large-calibre counter-weight gun feasible.

Took the words right out of my mouth - thumping great Davis Gun  :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
"We thank you, but this diversion is not true. Things never happened thus."

"Oh, but it IS true. Things need not have happened to be true. Tales and dreams are
the shadow-truths that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."

- Sandman: A Midsummer Night's Dream, by Neil Gaiman

GTX

What's even better is that from a maintenance pov, the ground crew could easily access the weapon from the bomb bay.

Regards,

Greg
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

philp

I personally like the slimmed down version.
Add the radar arrowhead to the front and a couple aerials to the wings, Night Fighter Black with some Red codes. :bow:
Phil Peterson

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