Author Topic: Stalwart Mk2(DC) & Mk3  (Read 9260 times)

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Offline marky

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Re: Stalwart Mk2(DC) & Mk3
« Reply #60 on: November 12, 2020, 04:26:21 am »

Fair enough, I'm glad that you get it and I hope that you enjoy the what-ifs on here.

...
Have fun. :thumbsup:

This is my interpretation of what a What if Stalwart would look like.



There was a rumour in the 80s that Shell had 8 wheel stalwarts, with Diesel engines that pulled out of the back on rails. It was a typical British Army windup, partially obvious because the Propulsion units protrude into the engine bay so far that you wouldn't be able to pull the engine past  them.
The other issue is that an 8 wheel vehicle would not be able to surmount the steepest of knife edges, as the hull might belly on the top of the knife edge





But what does get me, is the amount of deliberately misleading claims by people to try and make themselves look clever. Examples being that they kept sinking, or that soldiers had to sit in the back of the Saracens and pump grease into the drive train whilst they were going on to prevent the bevel boxes from breaking. The drive train on the FV600 range are lubricated by gearbox oil.
We still get ex squadies join the Stolly group on Facebook, and make outrageous claims - blissfully unaware that half the members are ex Stolly Ops themselves

Offline marky

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Re: Stalwart Mk2(DC) & Mk3
« Reply #61 on: November 12, 2020, 04:48:54 am »

Once I've built my 'inaugural AFV' kit, a Tamiya Challenger 2 which arrived today  :-\, I'd like to try a larger scale Stolly, modelled on the one we did the strain gauge tests on if I can remember enough about it.
If you have any factual information or photos, then I'd really appreciate it if you could share that with the Facebook HMLC group. We've got another source from the factory, but more is still needed
https://www.facebook.com/groups/alvis.hmlc.6.x.6.stalwart.group

Did you do the 'drive the Stolly fast off a high kerb' business to 'unwind' the transmission in the Engineers? Our Alvis test driver invented that I think when they were having all sorts of problems with the drive shafts winding up due to the lack of a centre diff on the things. That6's exactly why we were doing all the strain gauging in the first place of course.
You have to bear in mind that the British Army only spend a part of the year in exercise, the rest of the time is spent cleaning, training, projects for the community, overseas tours, etc. Our Stalwarts spent some 40 weeks of the year parked up. They happily drove from Osnabruck to Munster and back without the need for bouncing off kerbs. But the next day was usually spent playing on the local Training area. The favourite past time was to launch them at 40 Mph up an incline, or balance them on the middle wheel - which is centre of balance skill.
 








A couple of civilians fitted air operated drive shaft lockers, so only the centre two wheels driving whist on the road. But as you can probably imagine, that much power going to just 2 wheels probably caused as much problem. Part of the problem with the drive train, is that the tractor joints on the Stalwart suffer due to the raised height of the hull for ground clearance. The wheel stations on the Stalwart slope downwards. Owners now reduce the ride height, so that the wheel stations are level and the tractor joints mesh more easily

Offline marky

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Re: Stalwart Mk2(DC) & Mk3
« Reply #62 on: November 12, 2020, 04:57:26 am »

On an IRL notice - we had them over here as well, in our coastal defence artillery. Tow tractors pulling mobile fire control radars, , if I remember correctly.

Yes, Sweden trailed them early, and fitted radiators in the cab, hydraulic winches on the front of the Mk 1s, and Swedish FOCO cranes to some of theirs. Called them Amfibiebil. See http://amphibiouswarfare.blogspot.com/2012/05/walk-around-alvis-stalwart.html

I did join the Coastal Defence group on Facebook, but no one is sharing any photos or stories, and the Swedish Government aren't responding to FOI requests. Any help gathering info would


Offline PR19_Kit

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Re: Stalwart Mk2(DC) & Mk3
« Reply #63 on: November 12, 2020, 06:08:14 am »

If you have any factual information or photos, then I'd really appreciate it if you could share that with the Facebook HMLC group. We've got another source from the factory, but more is still needed


I worked in the R&D Dept. at Pressed Steel from 1961 to 1969, we were seen as the 'hi-tech' area of BMH once that grouping was formed, especially for our familiarity with strain gauges and their uses. We did a number of 'external' jobs for other parts of BMH after 1965-66, such as the drive shafts on the Austin gas turbine truck, later cancelled by Leyland (what a surprise...) and front suspension loads on the Jaguar XJ6. At around that time Alvis were having problems with windup of the transmission shafts of the Stollys and asked us to do some gauge work on the final drives. One of the other Test Technicians and I went up to MIRA and put the gauges and instrumentation on the test vehicle they had up there, a Mk2 as it had the sloping cab windows, and stayed there to run the instrumentation while they did the tests.

Applying the gauges was a REAL pain as the shafts were so short and access was 'difficult' to say the least! But we managed it after a few abortive attempts and the Alvis test driver went through his series of test runs, most of which went round the Cross Country Circuit or over the Spoon Drains. A year or so before my boss, Bob Goff, had had a 'British Standard Pothole' built outside the Cross Country Circuit, which was a 9" deep hole maybe 6 ft x 8 ft, through which we'd drive test cars to test their suspensions and structures, and on one run the Alvis bloke drove the Stolly through the Pothole. Amazingly the wind-up was less after that test and he said he was going to try it off a larger step to see if that helped, his theory being that when the centre wheel set was off the ground the wind-up un-wound itself.

And it worked, he took the Stolly off a 2 ft ledge that was a wall of one of the test sites there and all the wind-up went away, which pleased Alvis no end. I don't know what happened after that as they decided they didn't need any more strain gauging and we went back to Cowley. Rumour had it that Alvis had recommended the driving off a step kerb as a standard technique to unwind the transmission after that, but it was only a rumour at our end of the information chain.
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Offline marky

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Re: Stalwart Mk2(DC) & Mk3
« Reply #64 on: November 12, 2020, 07:33:47 am »
...
And it worked, he took the Stolly off a 2 ft ledge that was a wall of one of the test sites there and all the wind-up went away, which pleased Alvis no end. I don't know what happened after that as they decided they didn't need any more strain gauging and we went back to Cowley. Rumour had it that Alvis had recommended the driving off a step kerb as a standard technique to unwind the transmission after that, but it was only a rumour at our end of the information chain.

Is it OK if I share that information, credited to your name?

This photo is from an RCT unit at Duisberg. The driver is balancing the centre wheel to get the other 4 off the ground - to relieve that windup. It's also a great aid for teaching clutch control whilst still in the camp. We preferred to use knife edges at the local training ground.


Offline PR19_Kit

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Re: Stalwart Mk2(DC) & Mk3
« Reply #65 on: November 12, 2020, 08:42:32 am »

Is it OK if I share that information, credited to your name?

This photo is from an RCT unit at Duisberg. The driver is balancing the centre wheel to get the other 4 off the ground - to relieve that windup. It's also a great aid for teaching clutch control whilst still in the camp. We preferred to use knife edges at the local training ground.




By all means, please do.

What a cracking pic that is, and I guess that's just as good at un-winding as the 'jump off a kerb' system was too.  :thumbsup:

Did they have the same problems with the Saracens and Saladins as well?
Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

Regards
Kit

Offline Weaver

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Re: Stalwart Mk2(DC) & Mk3
« Reply #66 on: November 12, 2020, 11:03:33 am »

Fair enough, I'm glad that you get it and I hope that you enjoy the what-ifs on here.

...
Have fun. :thumbsup:

This is my interpretation of what a What if Stalwart would look like.



There was a rumour in the 80s that Shell had 8 wheel stalwarts, with Diesel engines that pulled out of the back on rails. It was a typical British Army windup, partially obvious because the Propulsion units protrude into the engine bay so far that you wouldn't be able to pull the engine past  them.
The other issue is that an 8 wheel vehicle would not be able to surmount the steepest of knife edges, as the hull might belly on the top of the knife edge

Nice one! That looks very buildable if somebody wants to try it. You can get self-adhesive transfers for the real BP one because somebody sells them for the purpose of renovating the Matchbox diecast version.



On my projects list is a Mk.1 in British Antarctic Survey colours. I'm well aware that it's probably not best suited for Antarctic conditions, but the idea is that it's more of a publicity stunt loan by Alvis rather than an purchase.


Quote
But what does get me, is the amount of deliberately misleading claims by people to try and make themselves look clever. Examples being that they kept sinking, or that soldiers had to sit in the back of the Saracens and pump grease into the drive train whilst they were going on to prevent the bevel boxes from breaking. The drive train on the FV600 range are lubricated by gearbox oil.

I've seen someone repeat the sitting in the back of a Saracen and pumping story, but they didn't mention grease, just 'keeping the lubrication system going'. They did say that it was a very old and tired vehicle.
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Offline Rheged

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Re: Stalwart Mk2(DC) & Mk3
« Reply #67 on: November 12, 2020, 11:50:16 am »
 Royal Marine and/or Royal Navy Stalwarts , used by Beach Control Parties  during major amphibious landings might be a possibility.......or even shown almost totally off the ground with the recruiting poster caption "FLY NAVY"

People may remember the "FLY NAVY"  RN recruiting posters showing a fast patrol boat (HMS Brave Borderer as I recall) or a Leander class frigate almost totally out of the water in rough weather.
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Are losing theirs and blaming it on you....."
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Offline PR19_Kit

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Re: Stalwart Mk2(DC) & Mk3
« Reply #68 on: November 12, 2020, 12:13:30 pm »
An orange Stalwart in Mogul Oils colours would look good.  ;D
Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

Regards
Kit

Offline rickshaw

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Re: Stalwart Mk2(DC) & Mk3
« Reply #69 on: November 12, 2020, 09:00:17 pm »
Downunder, the Australian Army had Saracens and Saladins (no Stalwarts despite what Wikipedia says).  Anyway, the Saracents would go on long, long, route marches to exercise areas.  I have heard what they were real devils.  One or two crewmen would need to travel in the rear, troop carrier compartment, pumping oil into the transfer cases for quite a lot of miles.  Apparently they had special foot pumps to do it with.    :banghead:
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Offline Pellson

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Re: Stalwart Mk2(DC) & Mk3
« Reply #70 on: November 13, 2020, 12:05:23 am »

On an IRL notice - we had them over here as well, in our coastal defence artillery. Tow tractors pulling mobile fire control radars, , if I remember correctly.

Yes, Sweden trailed them early, and fitted radiators in the cab, hydraulic winches on the front of the Mk 1s, and Swedish FOCO cranes to some of theirs. Called them Amfibiebil. See http://amphibiouswarfare.blogspot.com/2012/05/walk-around-alvis-stalwart.html

I did join the Coastal Defence group on Facebook, but no one is sharing any photos or stories, and the Swedish Government aren't responding to FOI requests. Any help gathering info would

I'm ex-RSwN myself, so I'll see what I can do. No promises though - my memory isn't what it was..
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Offline marky

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Re: Stalwart Mk2(DC) & Mk3
« Reply #71 on: November 13, 2020, 02:56:07 am »


I'm ex-RSwN myself, so I'll see what I can do. No promises though - my memory isn't what it was..

What I'm also trying to get is any info on the fitting of the hydraulic winches and the FOCO cranes.
FOCO is now owned by Hiab, who I've reached out to for any photos from the factory -but nothing yet

Offline Pellson

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Re: Stalwart Mk2(DC) & Mk3
« Reply #72 on: December 03, 2020, 01:29:55 am »

On an IRL notice - we had them over here as well, in our coastal defence artillery. Tow tractors pulling mobile fire control radars, , if I remember correctly.

Yes, Sweden trailed them early, and fitted radiators in the cab, hydraulic winches on the front of the Mk 1s, and Swedish FOCO cranes to some of theirs. Called them Amfibiebil. See http://amphibiouswarfare.blogspot.com/2012/05/walk-around-alvis-stalwart.html

I did join the Coastal Defence group on Facebook, but no one is sharing any photos or stories, and the Swedish Government aren't responding to FOI requests. Any help gathering info would

I'm ex-RSwN myself, so I'll see what I can do. No promises though - my memory isn't what it was..

There is a page with photos of the Swedish stollies here Also some rather detailed info on versions, procurement and tests - but in Swedish. However, google translate from Swedish to English is generally rather workable, but let me know if you need further assistance.
Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition!