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1:72 SdKfz. 144 Marder IV (Panzerjäger III fuer 7.5 cm PaK 40/2), Poland 1944

Started by Dizzyfugu, April 20, 2022, 07:45:11 AM

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Dizzyfugu


1:72 Sd.Kfz. 144, Panzerjäger III fuer 7.5 cm PaK 40/2 (,Marder IV'); vehicle '435' of the 4. Kompanie, Panzerjäger-Abteilung 616; Baranów (Powiat Kępiński/Poland), late 1944 (What-if/modified Revell kit)
by Dizzyfugu, on Flickr




Some background:
During Operation Barbarossa, the Panzer Divisions were once again spearheading the German advance, as in the previous year in the West. Initially, the lightly protected Soviet early tanks (like the BT series and the T-26) proved to be easy prey for the advancing German Panzers. However, the Panzer crews were shocked to discover that their guns were mostly ineffective against the armor of the newer T-34, the KV-1 and KV-2. German infantry units also discovered that their 3.7 cm PaK 36 anti-tank towed guns were of little use against these. The stronger 5 cm PaK 38 towed anti-tank gun was only effective at shorter distances and it had not been produced in great numbers by that time. Luckily for the Germans, the new Soviets tanks were immature designs, plagued by inexperienced crews, a lack of spare parts, ammunition and poor operational use. Nevertheless, they played a significant role in slowing down and eventually stopping the German assault in late 1941. In North Africa, the Germans also faced increasing numbers of Matilda tanks which also proved to be hard to knock out.


1:72 Sd.Kfz. 144, Panzerjäger III fuer 7.5 cm PaK 40/2 (,Marder IV'); vehicle '435' of the 4. Kompanie, Panzerjäger-Abteilung 616; Baranów (Powiat Kępiński/Poland), late 1944 (What-if/modified Revell kit)
by Dizzyfugu, on Flickr


1:72 Sd.Kfz. 144, Panzerjäger III fuer 7.5 cm PaK 40/2 (,Marder IV'); vehicle '435' of the 4. Kompanie, Panzerjäger-Abteilung 616; Baranów (Powiat Kępiński/Poland), late 1944 (What-if/modified Revell kit)
by Dizzyfugu, on Flickr


1:72 Sd.Kfz. 144, Panzerjäger III fuer 7.5 cm PaK 40/2 (,Marder IV'); vehicle '435' of the 4. Kompanie, Panzerjäger-Abteilung 616; Baranów (Powiat Kępiński/Poland), late 1944 (What-if/modified Revell kit)
by Dizzyfugu, on Flickr


1:72 Sd.Kfz. 144, Panzerjäger III fuer 7.5 cm PaK 40/2 (,Marder IV'); vehicle '435' of the 4. Kompanie, Panzerjäger-Abteilung 616; Baranów (Powiat Kępiński/Poland), late 1944 (What-if/modified Revell kit)
by Dizzyfugu, on Flickr


The experience gained during the first year of the invasion of the Soviet Union raised a red alert in the highest German military circles. One possible solution to this problem was the introduction of the new Rheinmetall 7.5 cm PaK 40 anti-tank gun. It was first issued in very limited numbers at the end of 1941. It became the standard German anti-tank gun used until the end of the war, with some 20,000 guns being built. It was an excellent anti-tank gun, able to penetrate 87 mm of hardened steel at a 60° angle at 1.000 m (3.000 ft) with a muzzle velocity of 990 m/s – enough to knock out the armor of the Soviet KV-1 tank at 500 meters, and at 1.500m the gun was still able to penetrate up to 77 mm of armor, enough to eliminate most Allied medium tanks like the M4 Sherman. Maximum engagement range was 1,800 metres (5,906 ft) and the PaK 40 had an indirect range of 7,678 metres (25,190 ft) with a HE shell. A trained crew was able to fire 14 rounds per minute and more.
However, despite these impressive figures,  the main problem with the PaK40 as a mobile field weapon was its heavy weight of 1,425 kilograms (3,138 lb), making it somewhat difficult to deploy and hard to manhandle. This also made it hard to adapt the weapon to existing battle tank designs: it was too large for the Panzer III turret and its narrow chassis that did not allow a bigger turret, but the adaptation to the slightly bigger Panzer IV as 7.5 cm KwK 40 succeeded. The gun was even adapted to aerial platforms as the BK 7,5 in the Henschel Hs 129B-3 and the Junkers Ju 88P-1 ground attack aircraft.

The solution to this mobility and deployment problem was to mount the PaK 40 on available tank chassis', creating SPGs. These new Panzerjäger (literally meaning "tank hunter") vehicles all followed the same pattern: most were open-topped adaptations of not-so-state-of-the-art-anymore tanks, with a fixed gun with limited traverse in the hull, and with only thin armor. Notwithstanding these limitations, they were armed with an effective anti-tank gun, and usually with one machine gun for self-defense. Another beneficial factor: they were cheap and easy to build, and lent outdated vehicles a second frontline life. Panzerjägers were, in essence, improvised and temporary solutions, but effective, nevertheless. They were designed to engage enemy tanks at long ranges on open fields, or from well-hidden positions, usually on the flanks, with frequent changes of the location to avoid enemy fire. This mentality led to a series of such specialized German vehicles, all running under the family handle "Marder" (marten) that was developed using many different armored vehicles as a basis, including captured French armored vehicles (Marder I), the light Panzer II tank chassis (Marder II), the Czech LT vz.38 tank (Marder III) and, finally, the medium Panzer III (Marder IV).


1:72 Sd.Kfz. 144, Panzerjäger III fuer 7.5 cm PaK 40/2 (,Marder IV'); vehicle '435' of the 4. Kompanie, Panzerjäger-Abteilung 616; Baranów (Powiat Kępiński/Poland), late 1944 (What-if/modified Revell kit)
by Dizzyfugu, on Flickr


1:72 Sd.Kfz. 144, Panzerjäger III fuer 7.5 cm PaK 40/2 (,Marder IV'); vehicle '435' of the 4. Kompanie, Panzerjäger-Abteilung 616; Baranów (Powiat Kępiński/Poland), late 1944 (What-if/modified Revell kit)
by Dizzyfugu, on Flickr


1:72 Sd.Kfz. 144, Panzerjäger III fuer 7.5 cm PaK 40/2 (,Marder IV'); vehicle '435' of the 4. Kompanie, Panzerjäger-Abteilung 616; Baranów (Powiat Kępiński/Poland), late 1944 (What-if/modified Revell kit)
by Dizzyfugu, on Flickr


1:72 Sd.Kfz. 144, Panzerjäger III fuer 7.5 cm PaK 40/2 (,Marder IV'); vehicle '435' of the 4. Kompanie, Panzerjäger-Abteilung 616; Baranów (Powiat Kępiński/Poland), late 1944 (What-if/modified Revell kit)
by Dizzyfugu, on Flickr


The Marder IV, officially known as SdKfz. 144 'Panzerjäger III fuer 7.5 cm PaK 40/2', was the last member of the light Panzerjäger family, and it was designed as a lighter and cheaper alternative to the fully armored Sturmgeschütz III (Sd.Kfz.142), which had been introduced in early 1940 as an infantry support vehicle. By 1942 it had  evolved into a capable assault gun and tank hunter, thanks to its new, long-barreled 7.5 cm StuK 40 L/43 gun (which actually was a development of the PaK 40). More than 10.000 StuG III SPGs were newly produced, but a small number (around 300) were converted between November 1943 and June 1944 from damaged and refurbished Panzer III battle tanks.
However, since this parallel production of the same vehicle was rather inefficient, the conversion line at MIAG gradually switched in early 1944 to the much simpler Marder IV. It had been developed in the meantime by Alkett as a successor for the Marder I and II SPGs, which suffered from many technical and tactical weaknesses. The Marder IV prototype was built by mid-September 1943, and on 20th October 1943 it was presented to the OKH. The vehicle proved to be satisfactory and thus was immediately adopted for production.

Even though the Marder IV still followed the earlier light tank hunter pattern with an open and just lightly armored superstructure that only gave inadequate protection for the crew, it was assumed that the stronger Panzer III chassis could better cope with the heavy 7.5 cm PaK 40 anti-tank gun and the vehicle's relatively high center of gravity that frequently overstressed the earlier Marder I & IIs' running gear.
Like the former Marder creations, the conversion was straightforward and followed the Marder II's pattern: the Panzer III battle tank basis lost the turret and the whole crew compartment was opened to provide the gun and the crew of four with more space. The engine remained the same and located in the chassis' rear end, with the powertrain running all through the hull to the front under a fairing. Since the Marder IV was lighter than the Panzer III, the gear ratio was slightly altered, resulting in a higher top speed. However, the drive shaft in the lower combat compartment resulted in a relatively high position of the gun mount and consequently in a tall silhouette that made the Marder IV hard to conceal and an easy prey to enemy infantry, once detected. The boxy superstructure had slightly sloped armor at the front and at the sides (30 mm at the front, 11 mm elsewhere), which only protected against small arms fire or shrapnel. It was not suited against heavier weapons – but the Marder IV would try to avoid these, anyway. The new superstructure was widened at its base, so that ammunition racks and other equipment could be stored on both sides of the gun. The driver kept his original position and sights on the left side of the hull, the commander was typically standing behind him, and gunner and loader operated the main weapon at the rear of the compartment. In the front armor was an opening for the PaK 40 that was slightly offset to the right, where it replaced the former radio/machine gun operator position. The opening was protected by a square armor shield, 50 mm strong, and a machine gun could be mounted on top of the front glacis plate, operated by the commander against ground and aerial targets. This weapon was without any further protection, though, but many crews improvised armored shields, e.g. salvaged from StuG III or IV vehicles. The crew compartment's top remained open and the rear plate featured a double door for ease of boarding and re-supplying. A tarpaulin could be mounted to offer the a limited degree of protection against rain.


1:72 Sd.Kfz. 144, Panzerjäger III fuer 7.5 cm PaK 40/2 (,Marder IV'); vehicle '435' of the 4. Kompanie, Panzerjäger-Abteilung 616; Baranów (Powiat Kępiński/Poland), late 1944 (What-if/modified Revell kit)
by Dizzyfugu, on Flickr


1:72 Sd.Kfz. 144, Panzerjäger III fuer 7.5 cm PaK 40/2 (,Marder IV'); vehicle '435' of the 4. Kompanie, Panzerjäger-Abteilung 616; Baranów (Powiat Kępiński/Poland), late 1944 (What-if/modified Revell kit)
by Dizzyfugu, on Flickr


1:72 Sd.Kfz. 144, Panzerjäger III fuer 7.5 cm PaK 40/2 (,Marder IV'); vehicle '435' of the 4. Kompanie, Panzerjäger-Abteilung 616; Baranów (Powiat Kępiński/Poland), late 1944 (What-if/modified Revell kit)
by Dizzyfugu, on Flickr


1:72 Sd.Kfz. 144, Panzerjäger III fuer 7.5 cm PaK 40/2 (,Marder IV'); vehicle '435' of the 4. Kompanie, Panzerjäger-Abteilung 616; Baranów (Powiat Kępiński/Poland), late 1944 (What-if/modified Revell kit)
by Dizzyfugu, on Flickr


Beyond the enlarged combat compartment, the hull remained unchanged. The ammunition supply for the gun was thirty-two rounds – a weakness that the Marder IV inherited from its predecessors and limited its combat effectiveness. Some of the vehicles received additional, bolted-on 30 mm armor plates on the front, or simply retained them from their former Panzer III lives. 5 mm (0.20 in) Panzerschürzen spaced armor to protect the vehicle's flanks and running gear could be mounted, too, but they were rarely fitted because they were short in supply and easily lost in the heat of battle.

The Marder IV just arrived after the breakout from Normandy at the end of July 1944 and the Allied landings in southern France in August 1944, when Allied forces advanced towards Germany more quickly than anticipated. The Marder IV was also used during the 'Battle of the Bulge' in the Ardennes in December of the same year. Units at the Eastern front received the Marder IV, too, and the type fought in frontline units until mid-1945. A total of 255 vehicles were produced until then, twenty of them were delivered to Hungarian forces. Some of the final production vehicles apparently had their PaK 40 replaced with a 8.8 cm Raketenwerfer 43 (also known as "Puppchen"), a reusable anti-tank rocket launcher that was much lighter and compact than the anti-tank gun.
However, the range of its missile, the RPzB. Gr. 4312, was very limited. Maximum range was just 750m, with an effective range of just 30 m (750 ft) against a moving target) and 500 m (1,600 ft) againts a stationary target. Coming that close into a firing position with the vehicle against an enemy battle tank was unlikely, if not suicidal, and most probably these Marder IVs were rather used as observation and command vehicles than as tank hunters. The number of these vehicles is uncertain, though, but probably less than 30 had been produced and delivered to frontline units until the end of the war.





Specifications:
    Crew: Five (commander, gunner, loader, driver, radio-operator)
    Weight: 18.5 tonnes
    Length: 5.56 m (18 ft 3 in), hull only
                 6,62 m (21 ft 8 1/2 in) overall
    Width: 2.90 m (9 ft 6 in)
    Height: 2.46 m (8 ft 1/2 in)
    Suspension: Torsion bar
    Fuel capacity: 300 litres

Armor:
    15 – 50 mm (0.6 – 1.97 in), sometimes up-armored to 80 mm at the front

Performance:
    Maximum road speed: 48 km/h (30 mph)
    Off-road speed: 28 km/h (18 mph)
    Operational range: 185 km (115 mi) on roads with internal fuel
                                       100 km (62 mi) off-road
    Power/weight: 16.21 PS (11.92 kW)/tonne

Engine:
    Maybach HL120 TRM water-cooled 12-cylinder gasoline engine with 300 PS (296 hp, 220 kW),
    combined with a Maybach OG 55 11 77 semi-automatic transmission

Armament:
    1× 75 mm (2.95 in) 7.5 cm PaK 40/2 L/48 anti-tank gun with thirty-two rounds
    1× 7.92 mm MG 34 or 42 machine gun with 2.400 rounds


The kit and its assembly:
This project was the result of a surplus 1:72 Revell Flakpanzer III "Ostwind" kit that I had in my stash after I had used the gun and the octagonal turret for a Panther conversion with twin 3.7 cm FlaK guns in an open turret. And even though the Ostwind kit was still buildable as a standard Panzer III (it includes a complete standard turret), I wanted to create something whiffy from it. An SPG was a serious option, maybe a tank hunter (since there was, apart from the StuG III with the long gun no such vehicle on this chassis), and then I remembered the Marder family of converted, outdated tanks - all of them had open superstructures, though and were only lightly armored, for hit.and-run tactics.

But I accepted this challenge and the plan was to mount a PaK 40 on the Panzer III chassis, with a new, scratched superstructure. The gun came from an Italeri set with infantry weapons, which also includes a 37 mm Pak and a quadruple 20 mm anti-aircraft gun. Initially I wanted to use the PaK 40's shield and build the combat compartment around it, but that soon turned out to be too complex, so that the gun just fired through a hole in the font plate, protected by an externa shield left over from an Elefant SPAAG (Trumpeter kit). The rest was inspired by the cabin of the Marder III (Ausf. H), with sloped side walls that widened the combat section beyond the lower hull between the tracks. Unlike the Marder III, however, the Panzer III offered enough space to mount a rear wall, offering better crew protection.


1:72 Sd.Kfz. 144, Panzerjäger III fuer 7.5 cm PaK 40/2 (,Marder IV'); vehicle '435' of the 4. Kompanie, Panzerjäger-Abteilung 616; Baranów (Powiat Kępiński/Poland), late 1944 (What-if/modified Revell kit) - WiP
by Dizzyfugu, on Flickr


1:72 Sd.Kfz. 144, Panzerjäger III fuer 7.5 cm PaK 40/2 (,Marder IV'); vehicle '435' of the 4. Kompanie, Panzerjäger-Abteilung 616; Baranów (Powiat Kępiński/Poland), late 1944 (What-if/modified Revell kit) - WiP
by Dizzyfugu, on Flickr


1:72 Sd.Kfz. 144, Panzerjäger III fuer 7.5 cm PaK 40/2 (,Marder IV'); vehicle '435' of the 4. Kompanie, Panzerjäger-Abteilung 616; Baranów (Powiat Kępiński/Poland), late 1944 (What-if/modified Revell kit) - WiP
by Dizzyfugu, on Flickr


Work started with the lower hull, with a raised floor (above the torsion bar suspension), new side walls and a tunnel for the cardan shaft from the engine to the driver wheels at the front - which seriously eats up lots of space and prevents a low mounting position for the main gun! Then the floors of the alcoves left and right were added and the side walls mounted to them. The front was the final challenge - after the gun position had been decided, I tried to build the front armore from segments around the necessary opening, which tunred out to be more complex than expected. But the Elefant front panel came to the rescue, I just had to cut the gun barrel to mount the matching shield and finally attach it to the gun inside of the hull.

The rest from the kit was taken OOB, I just added a driver seat inside and replaced the original segmented plastic tracks with aftermarket Panzer III/IV vinyl tracks from CMK - they match perfectly and are much easier to mount than a zillion of single track links that never look right...


Painting and markings:
Straightforward, following official regulations and inspired by a Wespe SPG with a similar camouflage concept: an overall countershading, with a Dunkelgelb (RAL 7928, Huimbrol 83 "Ochre") base and Olivgrün (RAL 6003, I used Humbrol 159 because it is slightly lighter than the recommended 86) mottles that become denser and denser the higher they are placed on the hull, with a "clean" running gear area (which provides shadow contrasts that break the vehicles outlines by themselves) and an almost exclusively green top of the superstructure. The visible interior remained Dunkelgelb, though.


1:72 Sd.Kfz. 144, Panzerjäger III fuer 7.5 cm PaK 40/2 (,Marder IV'); vehicle '435' of the 4. Kompanie, Panzerjäger-Abteilung 616; Baranów (Powiat Kępiński/Poland), late 1944 (What-if/modified Revell kit) - WiP
by Dizzyfugu, on Flickr


1:72 Sd.Kfz. 144, Panzerjäger III fuer 7.5 cm PaK 40/2 (,Marder IV'); vehicle '435' of the 4. Kompanie, Panzerjäger-Abteilung 616; Baranów (Powiat Kępiński/Poland), late 1944 (What-if/modified Revell kit) - WiP
by Dizzyfugu, on Flickr


1:72 Sd.Kfz. 144, Panzerjäger III fuer 7.5 cm PaK 40/2 (,Marder IV'); vehicle '435' of the 4. Kompanie, Panzerjäger-Abteilung 616; Baranów (Powiat Kępiński/Poland), late 1944 (What-if/modified Revell kit) - WiP
by Dizzyfugu, on Flickr


1:72 Sd.Kfz. 144, Panzerjäger III fuer 7.5 cm PaK 40/2 (,Marder IV'); vehicle '435' of the 4. Kompanie, Panzerjäger-Abteilung 616; Baranów (Powiat Kępiński/Poland), late 1944 (What-if/modified Revell kit) - WiP
by Dizzyfugu, on Flickr


Markings were minimal, and after securing the decals (taken from the OOBH sheet, the tactical code comes from a Hasegawa tank) with acrlyic varnish the model received a treatment with watercolors, a mix of umbra, burnt sienna and black that makes a great coat of dust and dirt at the small 1:72 scale. To break up the outlines even more I also added some camouflage nets to the superstructure - simple gauze bandage, drenched with olive green, dark brown and beige acrylic paint and mounted into place - and some branches - dry moss that was dyed with watercolors. Finally, after the painted vinyl tracks (with grey, brown and iron acrylic paint) had been mounted, the lower areas of the model were dusted with mineral artist pigments to simulate more dust.





1:72 Sd.Kfz. 144, Panzerjäger III fuer 7.5 cm PaK 40/2 (,Marder IV'); vehicle '435' of the 4. Kompanie, Panzerjäger-Abteilung 616; Baranów (Powiat Kępiński/Poland), late 1944 (What-if/modified Revell kit)
by Dizzyfugu, on Flickr


1:72 Sd.Kfz. 144, Panzerjäger III fuer 7.5 cm PaK 40/2 (,Marder IV'); vehicle '435' of the 4. Kompanie, Panzerjäger-Abteilung 616; Baranów (Powiat Kępiński/Poland), late 1944 (What-if/modified Revell kit)
by Dizzyfugu, on Flickr


1:72 Sd.Kfz. 144, Panzerjäger III fuer 7.5 cm PaK 40/2 (,Marder IV'); vehicle '435' of the 4. Kompanie, Panzerjäger-Abteilung 616; Baranów (Powiat Kępiński/Poland), late 1944 (What-if/modified Revell kit)
by Dizzyfugu, on Flickr


1:72 Sd.Kfz. 144, Panzerjäger III fuer 7.5 cm PaK 40/2 (,Marder IV'); vehicle '435' of the 4. Kompanie, Panzerjäger-Abteilung 616; Baranów (Powiat Kępiński/Poland), late 1944 (What-if/modified Revell kit)
by Dizzyfugu, on Flickr


It does not look complex, but this small Marder derivative was quite a challenge with its scratched superstructure and the implanted PaK 40, which remained visible and even movable! The result looks very plausible, though - a really subtle whif model.

Old Wombat

Highly plausible, Dizzy! :thumbsup:

Although I wonder if they wouldn't have gone the later Marder III route, moving the engine forward & the fighting compartment aft, thus allowing a lower profile & improved ergonomics for the crew. :unsure:

Obviously this would have involved much more chopping & changing of your base kit, so I can fully understand your going with the early version. ;)
Has a life outside of What-If & wishes it would stop interfering!

"The purpose of all War is Peace" - St. Augustine

veritas ad mortus veritas est

Wardukw

Very cool Thomas  :thumbsup:
I like the use of the Elephant gun manlet ..nice use matey  ;D
Im planning to build a Panzer lll based Stug which was made in a full scale wooden mock up armed with a L71 gun .
But looking are yours and Guys ideas now has me rethinking my plans a wee bit..now like a Nashorn but smaller qith the same gun ..front engined..rear mounted gun ..yeah something to think about.
If it aint broke ,,fix it until it is .
Over kill is often very understated .
I know the voices in my head ain't real but they do come up with some great ideas.
Theres few of lifes problems that can't be solved with the proper application of a high explosive projectile .

NARSES2

Do not condemn the judgement of another because it differs from your own. You may both be wrong.



nighthunter

Y'know Thomas, I read somewhere that the crews weren't exactly fond of not having a roof, as there was little protection from falling rain, snow and lead. :wacko:
"Mind that bus." "What bus?" *SPLAT!*

Dizzyfugu

Righteously. All Marders were stopgap solutions, and attempt to make a heavy gun mobile. They were not designed for crew protection or direct confrontation and therefore only lightly armored. The StuG III/IV was better suited for these tasks, and offered sufficient protection against enemy fire and the elements. I can imagine that especially in winter the crew had a literally hard time on board of these light tank hunters.

Wardukw

TDs have been a fav model type for yrs..big guns  :wacko:
Now being a crew man on one is a different story..in summer its so hot ya cant touch ya own turret or on a few occasions ..ready to use ammo..winter..strange thing..its damn near the same as summer ..so cold ya hands would stick to the steel and of course as you two blokes said..no roof ..most times only a tarp for cover but some crews would use timber for a make shift roof..seen this on US machines..M10..M36..M18 and the like..cant remember ever seeing it on German vehicles tho.
I think it could do with the fact the armour on the German machines was quite low and would have interfered with the crews movement.
If it aint broke ,,fix it until it is .
Over kill is often very understated .
I know the voices in my head ain't real but they do come up with some great ideas.
Theres few of lifes problems that can't be solved with the proper application of a high explosive projectile .

NARSES2

I've always found the Marders strangely attractive, especially some of those based on captured French vehicles.

Quote from: Wardukw-NZ on May 09, 2022, 11:43:02 AM
..so cold ya hands would stick to the steel

Dad always said that was one of the hazards of the Russian convoys.
Do not condemn the judgement of another because it differs from your own. You may both be wrong.

Wardukw

Perfect example Chris...Pak 40 on the Lorraine tractor ..its small as hell but i seriously want one  ;D or better known as the Marder 1 ..always liked the Marder 3 with the 76.2mm russian gun..long barrel looked right with it..tho crew protection was naff all.
If it aint broke ,,fix it until it is .
Over kill is often very understated .
I know the voices in my head ain't real but they do come up with some great ideas.
Theres few of lifes problems that can't be solved with the proper application of a high explosive projectile .

Rick Lowe

Quote from: Wardukw-NZ on May 10, 2022, 09:46:26 AM
Perfect example Chris...Pak 40 on the Lorraine tractor ..its small as hell but i seriously want one  ;D or better known as the Marder 1 ..always liked the Marder 3 with the 76.2mm russian gun..long barrel looked right with it..tho crew protection was naff all.

Well, the armour would stop a Weapons-grade Glare, but that's about it.

FYI, Trumpeter did 2-3 French chassis-based SPGs and SPHs back in the day... finding one (or more) would be the trick, though.
IIRC Alan also did the Panzer 2-based, Russian-gunned Marder.

Wardukw

Rick the Lorraine/Marder 1 i still out there but buggered if i remember who makes it but its not very old.
Marder ll was on the Panzer ll chassis and used thr pak40 75mm..the Panzer ll Ausf D and C i believe are the verison which mounted the 76.2mm gun and agreed theres model -_---------_- out there   :lol: and yup i want one which im pretty sure you could've guessed   ;D
Totally agreed ..the armour was glare proof ..could be dented tho by leaves moving at more than ten kph ..so ive heard  :unsure:
If it aint broke ,,fix it until it is .
Over kill is often very understated .
I know the voices in my head ain't real but they do come up with some great ideas.
Theres few of lifes problems that can't be solved with the proper application of a high explosive projectile .

NARSES2

Quote from: Wardukw-NZ on May 10, 2022, 09:46:26 AM
Perfect example Chris...Pak 40 on the Lorraine tractor ..its small as hell but i seriously want one  ;D or better known as the Marder 1 ..always liked the Marder 3 with the 76.2mm russian gun..long barrel looked right with it..tho crew protection was naff all.

Totally agree  :thumbsup:
Do not condemn the judgement of another because it differs from your own. You may both be wrong.

Wardukw

Oh i forgot to mention that i want 2 Lorraine tractors...a Marder1 and the SPG version ..ive seen the early model with the WW1 150mm gun..i want to build a verison i saw in a vid with a FH18 105mm with a muzzle break.  ;D
Orrrr a wiffy verison with the russian 76.2mm gun  :thumbsup:
If it aint broke ,,fix it until it is .
Over kill is often very understated .
I know the voices in my head ain't real but they do come up with some great ideas.
Theres few of lifes problems that can't be solved with the proper application of a high explosive projectile .