Another Lightning

Started by Beermonster58, March 14, 2022, 06:09:32 AM

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Beermonster58

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I was kind of thinking that, rather than limit the F2A Lightning to the rather limited Firestreak missile, why not put it to better use. Remove the obsolete missile electronics, install an additional pair of 30mm cannons(an option built in to the design but never used) and, use its air to ground capability?
I was going to add a couple of Sidewinders but, in the end, sheer laziness prevailed!
I did however add the additional pair of nose mounted 30mm cannons.
Weapons added are 6 x BL755 Cluster bombs
Hates rivet counters! Eats JMNs for breakfast!

The Rat

"My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought, cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives." Hedley Lamarr, Blazing Saddles
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Glenn Gilbertson


The Wooksta!

Except Firestreak wasn't obsolete, the RAF was happy with it for reliability reasons due to its simplicity. The last ones were retired with Lightning.

Studies were done for Sidewinders but fell down for either drag reasons - whereas both Firestreak and Red Top gave more lift due to their fins - or another reason I can't remember. And cost. Always remember that the Treasury don't want to spend anything.

And the F2A, whilst it looked like an F6, the wings got the leading edge mods but were not stressed to carry stores. That was left to the later export models.

The best you can do with the F2A is add the cannon pack that the F6 got, four 30mm cannons plus Firestreak is still potent enough. Don't forget that the missile pack can be replaced with two batteries of unguided missiles.

The truth is that the RAF were always unhappy with Lightning, because it was limited. They really wanted something bigger but politics and cost got in the way. Plus development funds went to Harrier, Phantom Jaguar and then Tornado, because of the influence of the bomber barons. BAC did all the work to turn Lightning into a strike aircraft, going back to 1956 with the P.11 carrying a Red Beard. The RAF were too blinded by TSR2 and other false hopes to worry about fighters and BACs work was ignored.

The F2As are another wasted opportunity.  They were all rewired and then withdrawn and scrapped six months after the work was finished. Had someone with sense have thought ahead, one squadron could have been stood down earlier and the money used to rewire them used to rebuild the T5 fleet to T55 standard.

Another possibility are the ex -Saudi aircraft that were returned to the UK.  They had fairly low airframe hours and were in good condition. Due to them having a different Avon, they were incompatible with RAF ones but I've always thought that placing them with a single Squadrons and buying back all the spares from Saudi before issuing them to that squadron would be the best plan.

Apparently there was though of activating a third Lightning squadron in the early 80s as there were enough aircraft, but it fell through due to lack of pilots.
"It's basically a cure -  for not being an axe-wielding homicidal maniac. The potential market's enormous!"

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Beermonster58

Quote from: The Wooksta! on March 14, 2022, 01:32:21 PM
Except Firestreak wasn't obsolete, the RAF was happy with it for reliability reasons due to its simplicity. The last ones were retired with Lightning.

Studies were done for Sidewinders but fell down for either drag reasons - whereas both Firestreak and Red Top gave more lift due to their fins - or another reason I can't remember. And cost. Always remember that the Treasury don't want to spend anything.

And the F2A, whilst it looked like an F6, the wings got the leading edge mods but were not stressed to carry stores. That was left to the later export models.

The best you can do with the F2A is add the cannon pack that the F6 got, four 30mm cannons plus Firestreak is still potent enough. Don't forget that the missile pack can be replaced with two batteries of unguided missiles.

The truth is that the RAF were always unhappy with Lightning, because it was limited. They really wanted something bigger but politics and cost got in the way. Plus development funds went to Harrier, Phantom Jaguar and then Tornado, because of the influence of the bomber barons. BAC did all the work to turn Lightning into a strike aircraft, going back to 1956 with the P.11 carrying a Red Beard. The RAF were too blinded by TSR2 and other false hopes to worry about fighters and BACs work was ignored.

The F2As are another wasted opportunity.  They were all rewired and then withdrawn and scrapped six months after the work was finished. Had someone with sense have thought ahead, one squadron could have been stood down earlier and the money used to rewire them used to rebuild the T5 fleet to T55 standard.

Another possibility are the ex -Saudi aircraft that were returned to the UK.  They had fairly low airframe hours and were in good condition. Due to them having a different Avon, they were incompatible with RAF ones but I've always thought that placing them with a single Squadrons and buying back all the spares from Saudi before issuing them to that squadron would be the best plan.

Apparently there was though of activating a third Lightning squadron in the early 80s as there were enough aircraft, but it fell through due to lack of pilots.
That's a very interesting post. Thanks for the info.
My model does in fact feature 4 x nose mounted 30mm cannons but, this was not clear from my post. I have amended the wording accordingly.

Cheers

Allan
Hates rivet counters! Eats JMNs for breakfast!

The Wooksta!

"It's basically a cure -  for not being an axe-wielding homicidal maniac. The potential market's enormous!"

"Visit Scarfolk today!"
https://scarfolk.blogspot.com/

"She's died?!?  Then how's she meant to get the shopping home?"

The Plan:
www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic

AeroplaneDriver

So I got that going for me...which is nice....

The Wooksta!

I have several done and others in primer based on it.

I'd still like to see a proper three view for the tandem 2 seat Lightning though. One was definitely drawn up.
"It's basically a cure -  for not being an axe-wielding homicidal maniac. The potential market's enormous!"

"Visit Scarfolk today!"
https://scarfolk.blogspot.com/

"She's died?!?  Then how's she meant to get the shopping home?"

The Plan:
www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic

AeroplaneDriver

Quote from: The Wooksta! on March 18, 2022, 11:19:40 AM
I have several done and others in primer based on it.

I'd still like to see a proper three view for the tandem 2 seat Lightning though. One was definitely drawn up.




Have you seen this book Lee?  I started doing some Googling yesterday when you mentioned this and found this book.  First out in 2017 but I hadn't seen it before .  Looked interesting so I ordered it and by some miracle it arrived at my house via Amazon only 16 hours later.  It has quite a section on the EE P.8.  Is that the one you are talking about?  It has several drawings from BAE archives including some 3-views.  About to leave for the afternoon but if you haven't seen the book I'll be glad to send some pics later today. 
So I got that going for me...which is nice....

The Wooksta!

#10
Can't see the pic on the Mac (it's getting on a bit) but if it's the Dan Sharp book on the F.155 competitors, I do have it and it's looking very battered these days.  Vital reference if you're working your way through Alistair's 3D kits!

It was also quite annoying when I see the view of a gunpack armed Canberra PR.9 (P.12) as I thought mine was a whiff and then it turns out to be real.  Grrrr!  Still, it needs a modicum of filler and I can get the primer on.
"It's basically a cure -  for not being an axe-wielding homicidal maniac. The potential market's enormous!"

"Visit Scarfolk today!"
https://scarfolk.blogspot.com/

"She's died?!?  Then how's she meant to get the shopping home?"

The Plan:
www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic

Gondor

Quote from: The Wooksta! on March 20, 2022, 10:39:17 AM
Can't see the pic on the Mac (it's getting on a bit) but if it's the Dan Sharp book on the F.155 competitors, I do have it and it's looking very battered these days.  Vital reference if you're working your way through Alistair's 3D kits!

It was also quite annoying when I see the view of a gunpack armed Canberra PR.9 (P.12) as I thought mine was a whiff and then it turns out to be real.  Grrrr!  Still, it needs a modicum of filler and I can get the primer on.

I can see the picture Lee and it's the Dan Sharp book.

Gondor
My Ability to Imagine is only exceeded by my Imagined Abilities

Gondor's Modelling Rule Number Three: Everything will fit perfectly untill you apply glue...

I know it's in a book I have around here somewhere....

The Wooksta!

"It's basically a cure -  for not being an axe-wielding homicidal maniac. The potential market's enormous!"

"Visit Scarfolk today!"
https://scarfolk.blogspot.com/

"She's died?!?  Then how's she meant to get the shopping home?"

The Plan:
www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic