The EE Flattening

[PR19_Kit]

Having just read the first few chapters of Tony Wilson's wonderful Lightning book, and reading Lee's screed on how he's building pretty much EVERY Lightning variant there ever was, caused me some thought.

I wondered why the Lightning ended up with its engines one on top of the other, rather than side by side, as was more conventional in those days, viz Javelin, Scimitar etc.

Re-reading Chapter 1 of the book produced the answer, apparently with the pilot in the original position on the P1 it made for a smaller front cross sectional area and thus less drag. But later on it made no sense to me because in service the Lightning had the pilot almost perched on TOP of the fuselage, if only so he had a better view astern.

This train of thought produced the idea of a flat Lightning, with the engines side by side and with all appropriate changes made to the airframe.

I'm in the middle of drawing up such a beast now, and wondering if I have enough Lightning kits to actually do it.......

Silly question really, at the last count I had 2 x Airfix F6s, 2 x Airfix F2As, 3 x FROG F6s, 1 x Airfix F3, 1 x Matchbox T55 etc. etc. Should be enough. 

[The Wooksta!]

It would probably look like that Commonwealth jet design with a smaller nose intake.

I've got the Uncle Les kit of it and it's a bit rough. Looks like he's started with a tornado as a master.  Would a Sea Vixen centre section be a better start?

I've some spare Lightning F3 wings I can pass on, and some gash F6 fuselages too.

[PR19_Kit]

I was actually planning to turn a Lightning fuselage through 90 deg, and see how it worked. 

Not finished the drawing yet, but I'm getting there.

[kitnut617]

It might have looked like this Kit, This is the CAC CA-23. I've got a kit of it from Uncle Les Models.

[PR19_Kit]

Oh yes, very much like that! 

I like the whole idea more and more now. 

[Gondor]

That's a very interesting aircraft, will have to look that up and maybe pinch ideas from it

Gondor

[The Wooksta!]

Don't know if the  Uncle Les kit is still available. I got mine a good 15 years ago.

I recently dug it it but decided I had waaaaaay too many projects on the go. I may have another look in a few months.

[Stan in YUL]

The over-under configuration solved asymmetrical thrust issues but was probably a maintenance PITA if it was the top engine you really needed to get at.

[The Wooksta!]

No "probably" about it. Fitters hated them. It took a week for an engine change and the longer engines in the F3 and F6 had the hatches in the wrong places.

[PR19_Kit]

Here's the rough sketch up I've done so far. No armarment, apart from the two Red Tops in side view and upper gun ports, and no landing gear as yet.

I shortened the fin as the F6 version looks MASSIVE on that skinny fuselage. The belly tank is half as wide again, because it can be, all the rest of the stuff is in approx the same place, except the engines are side by side of course.



I don't really like it in side view, it's just too skinny, but it looks OK in plan, and nose on, it's a HOOT! 

Any and all comments gratefully received. 

[Stan in YUL]

No "probably" about it. Fitters hated them. It took a week for an engine change and the longer engines in the F3 and F6 had the hatches in the wrong places.

I had no idea it was that bad! 

[The Wooksta!]

Wings would need to be higher, otherwise you need circular frames holding the spars which adds weight.  There would also be space in the fuselage for the undercarriage, which means a wet wing is possible, so more hard points for drop tanks - EE liked their slippers - or other lethality.
I also suspect that, like Sydney Camm with the P.1067, they'd cut the intakes back, partly to reduce drag in the intake airflow but to allow for a more spacious cockpit too. Another benefit would be space for a larger radar.

In the end, you'd have something analagous to a Tornado with Lightning wings. Look at some of the proposals BAC were drafting in the early 60s. TBH, it's something I've long thought of, but never could get past that conclusion.

On reflection, I think you're looking at it the wrong way. EE took Lightning's wing and other bits and redesigned the fuselage twice, for both the P8 - which was really a slightly enlarged Lightning - and the P6. The latter had the wing raised.

I'd like to see where you'd place the engines in it, which determines where the side intakes could go.

[jcf]

Eliminating the belly bulge, or at least reducing it in size, would help with the profile view.
Widening it as in your front-view would be a drag disaster. Maybe two smaller bulges set
more to the outer mould line? Or just deepen the fuselage.

[The Rat]

I was actually planning to turn a Lightning fuselage through 90 deg, and see how it worked. 

Not finished the drawing yet, but I'm getting there.

Something I've often played around with in my mind. Belly tank as normal?

[Mossie]

I've had ideas on this.  My approach was have been to cut two lightning's in half lengthwise, then put the two upper portions together.  It'd be a big job though as you'd need to cut out the spines, fill the cockpit holes then transplant a spine and cockpit on top.