avatar_PR19_Kit

The EE Flattening

Started by PR19_Kit, October 22, 2021, 08:13:53 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

PR19_Kit

Having just read the first few chapters of Tony Wilson's wonderful Lightning book, and reading Lee's screed on how he's building pretty much EVERY Lightning variant there ever was, caused me some thought.

I wondered why the Lightning ended up with its engines one on top of the other, rather than side by side, as was more conventional in those days, viz Javelin, Scimitar etc.

Re-reading Chapter 1 of the book produced the answer, apparently with the pilot in the original position on the P1 it made for a smaller front cross sectional area and thus less drag. But later on it made no sense to me because in service the Lightning had the pilot almost perched on TOP of the fuselage, if only so he had a better view astern.

This train of thought produced the idea of a flat Lightning, with the engines side by side and with all appropriate changes made to the airframe.

I'm in the middle of drawing up such a beast now, and wondering if I have enough Lightning kits to actually do it.......

Silly question really, at the last count I had 2 x Airfix F6s, 2 x Airfix F2As, 3 x FROG F6s, 1 x Airfix F3, 1 x Matchbox T55 etc. etc. Should be enough.  ;D
Kit's Rule 1 ) Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage
Kit's Rule 2) The backstory can always be changed to suit the model

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

Regards
Kit

The Wooksta!

It would probably look like that Commonwealth jet design with a smaller nose intake.

I've got the Uncle Les kit of it and it's a bit rough. Looks like he's started with a tornado as a master.  Would a Sea Vixen centre section be a better start?

I've some spare Lightning F3 wings I can pass on, and some gash F6 fuselages too.
"It's basically a cure -  for not being an axe-wielding homicidal maniac. The potential market's enormous!"

"Visit Scarfolk today!"
https://scarfolk.blogspot.com/

"She's died?!?  Then how's she meant to get the shopping home?"

The Plan:
www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic

PR19_Kit

I was actually planning to turn a Lightning fuselage through 90 deg, and see how it worked.  ;D ;)

Not finished the drawing yet, but I'm getting there.
Kit's Rule 1 ) Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage
Kit's Rule 2) The backstory can always be changed to suit the model

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

Regards
Kit

kitnut617

It might have looked like this Kit, This is the CAC CA-23. I've got a kit of it from Uncle Les Models.





If I'm not building models, I'm out riding my dirtbike

PR19_Kit

Oh yes, very much like that!  :thumbsup:

I like the whole idea more and more now.  ;D
Kit's Rule 1 ) Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage
Kit's Rule 2) The backstory can always be changed to suit the model

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

Regards
Kit

Gondor

#5
That's a very interesting aircraft, will have to look that up and maybe pinch ideas from it

Gondor
My Ability to Imagine is only exceeded by my Imagined Abilities

Gondor's Modelling Rule Number Three: Everything will fit perfectly untill you apply glue...

I know it's in a book I have around here somewhere....

The Wooksta!

Don't know if the  Uncle Les kit is still available. I got mine a good 15 years ago.

I recently dug it it but decided I had waaaaaay too many projects on the go. I may have another look in a few months.
"It's basically a cure -  for not being an axe-wielding homicidal maniac. The potential market's enormous!"

"Visit Scarfolk today!"
https://scarfolk.blogspot.com/

"She's died?!?  Then how's she meant to get the shopping home?"

The Plan:
www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic

Stan in YUL

The over-under configuration solved asymmetrical thrust issues but was probably a maintenance PITA if it was the top engine you really needed to get at.

The Wooksta!

No "probably" about it. Fitters hated them. It took a week for an engine change and the longer engines in the F3 and F6 had the hatches in the wrong places.
"It's basically a cure -  for not being an axe-wielding homicidal maniac. The potential market's enormous!"

"Visit Scarfolk today!"
https://scarfolk.blogspot.com/

"She's died?!?  Then how's she meant to get the shopping home?"

The Plan:
www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic

PR19_Kit

Here's the rough sketch up I've done so far. No armarment, apart from the two Red Tops in side view and upper gun ports, and no landing gear as yet.

I shortened the fin as the F6 version looks MASSIVE on that skinny fuselage. The belly tank is half as wide again, because it can be, all the rest of the stuff is in approx the same place, except the engines are side by side of course.



I don't really like it in side view, it's just too skinny, but it looks OK in plan, and nose on, it's a HOOT!  ;D

Any and all comments gratefully received.  ;)
Kit's Rule 1 ) Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage
Kit's Rule 2) The backstory can always be changed to suit the model

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

Regards
Kit

Stan in YUL

Quote from: The Wooksta! on October 22, 2021, 12:00:32 PM
No "probably" about it. Fitters hated them. It took a week for an engine change and the longer engines in the F3 and F6 had the hatches in the wrong places.
I had no idea it was that bad! 

The Wooksta!

#11
Wings would need to be higher, otherwise you need circular frames holding the spars which adds weight.  There would also be space in the fuselage for the undercarriage, which means a wet wing is possible, so more hard points for drop tanks - EE liked their slippers - or other lethality.
I also suspect that, like Sydney Camm with the P.1067, they'd cut the intakes back, partly to reduce drag in the intake airflow but to allow for a more spacious cockpit too. Another benefit would be space for a larger radar.

In the end, you'd have something analagous to a Tornado with Lightning wings. Look at some of the proposals BAC were drafting in the early 60s. TBH, it's something I've long thought of, but never could get past that conclusion.

On reflection, I think you're looking at it the wrong way. EE took Lightning's wing and other bits and redesigned the fuselage twice, for both the P8 - which was really a slightly enlarged Lightning - and the P6. The latter had the wing raised.

I'd like to see where you'd place the engines in it, which determines where the side intakes could go.
"It's basically a cure -  for not being an axe-wielding homicidal maniac. The potential market's enormous!"

"Visit Scarfolk today!"
https://scarfolk.blogspot.com/

"She's died?!?  Then how's she meant to get the shopping home?"

The Plan:
www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic

jcf

Eliminating the belly bulge, or at least reducing it in size, would help with the profile view.
Widening it as in your front-view would be a drag disaster. Maybe two smaller bulges set
more to the outer mould line? Or just deepen the fuselage.

The Rat

Quote from: PR19_Kit on October 22, 2021, 08:39:14 AM
I was actually planning to turn a Lightning fuselage through 90 deg, and see how it worked.  ;D ;)

Not finished the drawing yet, but I'm getting there.

Something I've often played around with in my mind. Belly tank as normal?
"My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought, cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives." Hedley Lamarr, Blazing Saddles
Youtube: https://tinyurl.com/46dpfdpr

Mossie

I've had ideas on this.  My approach was have been to cut two lightning's in half lengthwise, then put the two upper portions together.  It'd be a big job though as you'd need to cut out the spines, fill the cockpit holes then transplant a spine and cockpit on top.
I don't think it's nice, you laughin'. You see, my mule don't like people laughin'. He gets the crazy idea you're laughin' at him. Now if you apologize, like I know you're going to, I might convince him that you really didn't mean it.