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Drachinifel's Rum Ration - Battle of the Philippine Sea - Lee Sails West

Started by scooter, June 19, 2019, 05:27:29 PM

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scooter

The F-106- 26 December 1956 to 8 August 1988
Gone But Not Forgotten

QuoteOh are you from Wales ?? Do you know a fella named Jonah ?? He used to live in whales for a while.
— Groucho Marx

My dA page: Scooternjng

Old Wombat

Has a life outside of What-If & wishes it would stop interfering!

"The purpose of all War is Peace" - St. Augustine

veritas ad mortus veritas est

kerick

" Somewhere, between half true, and completely crazy, is a rainbow of nice colours "
Tophe the Wise

scooter

The F-106- 26 December 1956 to 8 August 1988
Gone But Not Forgotten

QuoteOh are you from Wales ?? Do you know a fella named Jonah ?? He used to live in whales for a while.
— Groucho Marx

My dA page: Scooternjng

Old Wombat

Has a life outside of What-If & wishes it would stop interfering!

"The purpose of all War is Peace" - St. Augustine

veritas ad mortus veritas est

scooter

The F-106- 26 December 1956 to 8 August 1988
Gone But Not Forgotten

QuoteOh are you from Wales ?? Do you know a fella named Jonah ?? He used to live in whales for a while.
— Groucho Marx

My dA page: Scooternjng

scooter

The F-106- 26 December 1956 to 8 August 1988
Gone But Not Forgotten

QuoteOh are you from Wales ?? Do you know a fella named Jonah ?? He used to live in whales for a while.
— Groucho Marx

My dA page: Scooternjng

NARSES2

Some of these pre-Dreadnaughts are absolutely glorious  :thumbsup:

Trumpeter do a fair few kits of them as well  :thumbsup:
Do not condemn the judgement of another because it differs from your own. You may both be wrong.

scooter

The F-106- 26 December 1956 to 8 August 1988
Gone But Not Forgotten

QuoteOh are you from Wales ?? Do you know a fella named Jonah ?? He used to live in whales for a while.
— Groucho Marx

My dA page: Scooternjng

scooter

The F-106- 26 December 1956 to 8 August 1988
Gone But Not Forgotten

QuoteOh are you from Wales ?? Do you know a fella named Jonah ?? He used to live in whales for a while.
— Groucho Marx

My dA page: Scooternjng

scooter

The F-106- 26 December 1956 to 8 August 1988
Gone But Not Forgotten

QuoteOh are you from Wales ?? Do you know a fella named Jonah ?? He used to live in whales for a while.
— Groucho Marx

My dA page: Scooternjng

Weaver

"Things need not have happened to be true. Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."
 - Morpheus in Sandman: A Midsummer Night's Dream, by Neil Gaiman

"I dunno, I'm making this up as I go."
 - Indiana Jones '

rickshaw

Quote from: Weaver on September 14, 2019, 03:13:35 PM
Quote from: scooter on September 13, 2019, 06:44:15 PM
USS Franklin (CV-13) - What to do when everything is on fire

Jesus Christ.... :o :o :o

Well, I hate to say it but that is what happens when you have wooden decks, instead of armoured ones, mixed with highly flammable AVGAS and HE.  On a British carrier the call would be for them to "man brooms" and they'd sweep any wreckage over the side.
How to reduce carbon emissions - Tip #1 - Walk to the Bar for drinks.

Old Wombat

Quote from: rickshaw on September 14, 2019, 06:17:11 PM
Quote from: Weaver on September 14, 2019, 03:13:35 PM
Quote from: scooter on September 13, 2019, 06:44:15 PM
USS Franklin (CV-13) - What to do when everything is on fire

Jesus Christ.... :o :o :o

Well, I hate to say it but that is what happens when you have wooden decks, instead of armoured ones, mixed with highly flammable AVGAS and HE.  On a British carrier the call would be for them to "man brooms" and they'd sweep any wreckage over the side.

Not quite as simple as that, I'm afraid, Brian. True the HE bomb may have done "superficial" damage on the flight deck but the AP bomb may well have penetrated the armoured flight deck of a British carrier & exploded in the hangar deck. On a British carrier of the time this was a major disaster as the enclosed hangar deck would have made the resulting damage even more devastating than it was aboard the Franklin, possibly ripping open the flight deck to allow burning fuel & explosives into the hangar deck but definitely rupturing fuel lines & ripping holes into the lower deck spaces into which burning fuel could pour.

There are good & bad points to both carrier design practices & there are good reasons BOTH navies went with both armoured fight & hangar decks with open sides post-war.

I can only admire the way those brave young men stayed cool & calm enough to fight to save their ship &, in the face of incredible odds, to succeed.
Has a life outside of What-If & wishes it would stop interfering!

"The purpose of all War is Peace" - St. Augustine

veritas ad mortus veritas est

rickshaw

In part I agree, Guy.  However, no British Fleet Carrier suffered a catastrophic penetration like the Franklin did during the war.  The worst was Illustrious in what, 1941 in the Mediterranean?  There, bombs from Stukas penetrated what was found to be faulty Czech made armour plates on the flight deck.   No other Fleet Carrier was made with those plates.  The Fleet Carriers in the Pacific suffered several hits from Kamikazes and survived.

HMS Formidable (R67)  26 March 1945
HMS Indefatigable  1 April 1945
HMS Indomitable  4 May 1945
HMS Formidable (R67)  4 May 1945
HMS Victorious (R38)   4 May 1945
HMS Victorious (R38)   9 May 1945

In all cases, they remained operational.  Compare that to the US carriers which suffered one or two hits and had to retire, generally.

There were reasons why the US Navy opted for wooden decks.  They believed it was easier to produce a carrier quickly with such decks.  It was up to the carrier's CAP to protect it from attacking aircraft.  In the case of Franklin it was circumstance that exposed it to the attack from the Japanese aircraft.  It was circumstance that her radar wasn't working, that left her open to the attack with a great deal of her gun crews absent, below getting food/sleep.   

I wonder what the resulting change to ship routine was after the Franklin attack?

How to reduce carbon emissions - Tip #1 - Walk to the Bar for drinks.