Author Topic: The Flying Machines of Unconventional Means GB - Discussion  (Read 2943 times)

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Offline loupgarou

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Re: The Flying Machines of Unconventional Means GB - Discussion
« Reply #75 on: March 10, 2019, 03:48:11 am »

Has anyone here tried making fabric covereded wings by laying PVA soaked tissue over a framework?

Some ancient Renwal kits used this system. But NOT with soaked tissue. Like in flying models of old, one glue the tissue to the frames, THEN use an approprite product (the name escapes me at the moment) to stretch the tissue. I'd say it would be better to spray, not brush the "product", given the fragility of the tissue.
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Offline zenrat

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Re: The Flying Machines of Unconventional Means GB - Discussion
« Reply #76 on: March 10, 2019, 04:06:03 am »

Has anyone here tried making fabric covereded wings by laying PVA soaked tissue over a framework?

Some ancient Renwal kits used this system. But NOT with soaked tissue. Like in flying models of old, one glue the tissue to the frames, THEN use an approprite product (the name escapes me at the moment) to stretch the tissue. I'd say it would be better to spray, not brush the "product", given the fragility of the tissue.

Thanks loupy.
I know from experience in using this to make tonneau covers on model cars that as the PVA dries it shrinks tightening the tissue.
And thinking about it this is the technique I used to build a rubber band powered balsa framed Tiger Moth when young.  Albeit in a larger scale and using dope to shrink the tissue.
I'm thinking of building 1/72 ornithopter wings using a framework of styrene ribs and spars with a curved perimeter formed from wire.
I'd be wary about putting diluted PVA through my airbrush lest it gum it up.  However, I think I have some old household cleaner trigger spray bottles somewhere which should mist it on adequately.
Experimentation is required.
Fred

Another ill conceived, lazily thought out, crudely executed and badly painted piece of half arsed what-if modelling muppetry from zenrat industries.

Offline PR19_Kit

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Re: The Flying Machines of Unconventional Means GB - Discussion
« Reply #77 on: March 10, 2019, 05:05:12 am »

Has anyone here tried making fabric covereded wings by laying PVA soaked tissue over a framework?

Some ancient Renwal kits used this system. But NOT with soaked tissue. Like in flying models of old, one glue the tissue to the frames, THEN use an approprite product (the name escapes me at the moment) to stretch the tissue. I'd say it would be better to spray, not brush the "product", given the fragility of the tissue.


Those were their Aeroskin kits, all 1/72 IIRC and from WWI as well.

They looked SUPERB when built, but weren't easy, I built all of them for my mate's model shop window, but I left off the rigging. That was a step too far for me!The Bristol F2b was my fave, and one of the German ones with the lozenge camo too.

I have a vague recollection that someone else took the range over, but I can't recall who or what came of them eventually.
Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage

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Regards
Kit

Offline loupgarou

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Owing to the current financial difficulties, the light at the end of the tunnel will be turned off until further notice.

Offline NARSES2

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Re: The Flying Machines of Unconventional Means GB - Discussion
« Reply #79 on: March 10, 2019, 07:30:56 am »
I remember the Renwall "Flying Machines" series and even had a couple of them. I've no real memory of skinning them, which probably means I gave up ???  :-X
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Offline PR19_Kit

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Re: The Flying Machines of Unconventional Means GB - Discussion
« Reply #80 on: March 10, 2019, 08:15:10 am »
I'm amazed that one's going so cheap! There's another of them for auction that's only reached 9.99 so far and 0 bids!

I found this too, an original Aeroskin kit, and I can remember building that one. I was amazed how well the pre-printed stripes around the rear fuselage lined up when I applied the 'skin'.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Renwal-1-72-Albatros-D-V-Lt-Ludwig-Hanstein-German-WWI-Rare-Aeroskin-Kit/162535014427?epid=926337886&hash=item25d7d7801b:g:X3kAAOSwlndZLeQd
Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

Regards
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Offline Weaver

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Re: The Flying Machines of Unconventional Means GB - Discussion
« Reply #81 on: March 10, 2019, 03:48:55 pm »
I once made wings for a white metal dragon out of clingflim set in shape with clear varnish and then painted with translucent inks. It worked fine, but the model never got finished because my mother managed to break it and once broken, there was no repairing them.
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Offline loupgarou

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Re: The Flying Machines of Unconventional Means GB - Discussion
« Reply #82 on: March 10, 2019, 04:05:17 pm »

Has anyone here tried making fabric covereded wings by laying PVA soaked tissue over a framework?

Some ancient Renwal kits used this system. But NOT with soaked tissue. Like in flying models of old, one glue the tissue to the frames, THEN use an approprite product (the name escapes me at the moment) to stretch the tissue. I'd say it would be better to spray, not brush the "product", given the fragility of the tissue.

Thanks loupy.
I know from experience in using this to make tonneau covers on model cars that as the PVA dries it shrinks tightening the tissue.
And thinking about it this is the technique I used to build a rubber band powered balsa framed Tiger Moth when young.  Albeit in a larger scale and using dope to shrink the tissue.
I'm thinking of building 1/72 ornithopter wings using a framework of styrene ribs and spars with a curved perimeter formed from wire.
I'd be wary about putting diluted PVA through my airbrush lest it gum it up.  However, I think I have some old household cleaner trigger spray bottles somewhere which should mist it on adequately.
Experimentation is required.

YES, that's the english name I didn't remember. Of course, I wouldn't dream of using PVA in an airbrush, I was thinking of using dope. Spraying it because in 1/72 it would be necessary to use VERY thin tissue, so very fragile. Brushing could destroy it. In another hobby of mine, book restoration, we use to repair tears, a VERY light japanese paper, called veil (don't know the correct english technical name) and I would use this in small scale models.
Owing to the current financial difficulties, the light at the end of the tunnel will be turned off until further notice.

Offline joncarrfarrelly

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Re: The Flying Machines of Unconventional Means GB - Discussion
« Reply #83 on: March 10, 2019, 10:10:06 pm »
The inspiration thread from the VTOL/Helicopter GB back in 2011:
http://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php/topic,32392.0.html

There are some dead links in my posts in the thread, I'll be going back
and replacing them with working links.
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Offline joncarrfarrelly

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Re: The Flying Machines of Unconventional Means GB - Discussion
« Reply #84 on: March 10, 2019, 10:13:46 pm »
V/STOL Concepts and Developed Aircraft. Volume 1. A Historical Report (1940-1986)
458 pages of Unconventional goodness, lots of info on "jetpacks" etc.
 :thumbsup:

http://contrails.iit.edu/reports/9396
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Offline NARSES2

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Re: The Flying Machines of Unconventional Means GB - Discussion
« Reply #85 on: March 12, 2019, 07:43:29 am »
I've got one idea in my brain for this GB, a Flying Pancake in FAA colours, but I'm going to be on the lookout for a couple of other bits and pieces at the Southern show on Saturday as there are a few more ideas buzzing around in my head dependent on obtaining the plastic. We shall see
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Offline Tophe

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Re: The Flying Machines of Unconventional Means GB - Discussion
« Reply #86 on: March 12, 2019, 09:51:50 am »
Would CAM tech work for a WW2 ZELL .
I suspect  it might be too bulky ?
I would be happy to draw a Zell Lightning P-38, but what is it? Google did not help me understanding what means "Zell type" in the rules, while I seem the only one not understanding. Has someone a link to show?
[the word "realistic" hurts my heart...]

Offline loupgarou

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Re: The Flying Machines of Unconventional Means GB - Discussion
« Reply #87 on: March 12, 2019, 12:52:05 pm »
Would CAM tech work for a WW2 ZELL .
I suspect  it might be too bulky ?
I would be happy to draw a Zell Lightning P-38, but what is it? Google did not help me understanding what means "Zell type" in the rules, while I seem the only one not understanding. Has someone a link to show?

I think is this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-length_launch
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Offline Tophe

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Re: The Flying Machines of Unconventional Means GB - Discussion
« Reply #88 on: March 12, 2019, 12:55:27 pm »
Thanks a lot! A Zell P-38 will come soon now it is very possible. :thumbsup:
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Offline Nick

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Re: The Flying Machines of Unconventional Means GB - Discussion
« Reply #89 on: March 17, 2019, 11:42:35 am »
Serious question for the mods as I've just got a potential kit:

Would you accept an X-15 as being unconventional?
Alternative markings are likely, ZELL launching is a possibility.