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What-if versus fantasy

Started by AS.12, June 22, 2018, 06:14:08 AM

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AS.12

Something that came to mind the other day: is there a point at which wiffery becomes fantasy?

Just to use a neutral example:

1. MiG-29 with Finnish markings: close-to reality WHIF, since the Finns did evaluate it.
2. MiG-29 with RAF markings: veering into fantasy now.
3. MiG-29 with forward-swept-wings: pure fantasy, no real-World basis.
4. MiG-29 combined with a submarine: well...

I suppose what I'm anchored on is a real-World point of divergence; I'm not comfortable with ideas that have no grounding in something that wasn't speculatively reported in Flight, for example. 

Perhaps I'm just to closed-minded?

zenrat

#1
5. MiG-29 combined with an octopus...

All whiffs and all fantasy IMO.
Fred

- Can't be bothered to do the proper research and get it right.

Another ill conceived, lazily thought out, crudely executed and badly painted piece of half arsed what-if modelling muppetry from zenrat industries.

zenrat industries:  We're everywhere...for your convenience..

kitbasher

And that's all OK, A.S.12, whatever floats your boat!  One's proximity to reality is one's choice.  Just like real life :rolleyes:
What If? & Secret Project SIG member.
On the go: Beaumaris/Battle/Bronco/Barracuda/F-105(UK)/Flatning/Hellcat IV/Hunter PR11/Hurricane IIb/Ice Cream Tank/JP T4/Jumo MiG-15/M21/P1103 (early)/P1154-ish/Phantom FG1/I-153/Sea Hawk T7/Spitfire XII/Spitfire Tr18/Twin Otter/FrankenCOIN/Frankenfighter

strobez

Quote from: zenrat on June 22, 2018, 06:39:30 AM
5. MiG-29 combined with an octopus...

All whiffs and all fantasy IMO.

Do you count the rivets... or the suckers?
Thanks!

Greg

TheChronicOne

Well, I've always had plans to make a twin fuselage Spitfire that carries a mini-sub in the middle that it can drop into the ocean.

It will be the Submarine Splitfire.


That said, limiting oneself to only building things that are one degree from reality seems far too restrictive to me. But, If that's what floats yer boat, then go for the gusto! Nothing wrong with that at all.  :mellow: :mellow: :mellow:
-Sprues McDuck-

Old Wombat

I've always considered whiffery to be a rather well-developed arm of science fiction, personally.
Has a life outside of What-If & wishes it would stop interfering!

"The purpose of all War is Peace" - St. Augustine

veritas ad mortus veritas est

Rheged

Personally, I don't really care how it is categorised, just as long as patrons of this site keep up their superb output of models/artwork/backstories etc for us all to enjoy.
"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you....."
It  means that you read  the instruction sheet

JayBee

I think that the first question you have to consider is " Fantasy ". What exactly is it?
My thoughts are that anything considered as What If can also be considered as Fantasy, and likewise anything considered as Fantasy is also a What If idea.
Seriously, in all cases, you are asking What If this is how it was.

Anyway, I have my own personal rules for building What If models:

1/ Model built OOB but with a variation in the markings.

2/ Model built but with some modifications, to make it different from the original.

3/ Subject built from existing model(s) but with significant changes, to make a new creation.

4/ Totally scratch built idea.

5/ Anything Sci-Fi.

It does not matter how far your mind strays from reality (ask Dali and Picasso), in this world it is the unbounded creativity that is our forte.

Cheers guys, keep taking the tablets.  :wacko:
Alle kunst ist umsunst wenn ein engel auf das zundloch brunzt!!

Sic biscuitus disintegratum!

Cats are not real. 
They are just physical manifestations of collisions between enigma & conundrum particles.

Any aircraft can be improved by giving it a SHARKMOUTH!

Weaver

I can get my head into (and out of - important) various different frames of reference. To me, being more grounded in sci-fi than fantasy, the important thing is that things are internally consistent within the frame of reference. So if the premise is "what if WWII started in 1938?", then I don't expect to see dragons and magic spells, however if the premise is "what would a sword-and-sorcery world look like if it advanced to the diesel-punk era?" then I'm fine with giant eagles battling Bf-109s...
"Things need not have happened to be true. Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."
 - Sandman: A Midsummer Night's Dream, by Neil Gaiman

"I dunno, I'm making this up as I go."
 - Indiana Jones

NARSES2

Quote from: kitbasher on June 22, 2018, 07:23:43 AM
And that's all OK, A.S.12, whatever floats your boat!  One's proximity to reality is one's choice.  Just like real life :rolleyes:

Agree totally. I've thought about this myself on the odd occasion and never come to a satisfactory answer so I've given up. The nearest I got was :-

What if - the subject is plausible

Fantasy - the subject isn't.

However the problem with that is that what is plausible to me, isn't necessarily so to others and vice versa. So as said, I gave up.

Quote from: strobez on June 22, 2018, 08:00:19 AM
Quote from: zenrat on June 22, 2018, 06:39:30 AM
5. MiG-29 combined with an octopus...

All whiffs and all fantasy IMO.

Do you count the rivets... or the suckers?

;D ;D
Do not condemn the judgement of another because it differs from your own. You may both be wrong.

Weaver

Also, the plausibility level can vary between the basic premise and what you do with it in detail. For instance, you could concoct any number of backgrounds involving 'extra' countries, big islands in the Pacific or Atlantic for example, which are preposterous in and of themselves, but then work out military history and technology for them which is 100% grounded in real-world principles and 'fits' perfectly into whatever era you're considering. Is this fantasy, sci-fi, what-iffery, alt-history, all of the above, something else entirely, and does it even matter?
"Things need not have happened to be true. Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."
 - Sandman: A Midsummer Night's Dream, by Neil Gaiman

"I dunno, I'm making this up as I go."
 - Indiana Jones

NARSES2

Harold, that's exactly why I stopped trying to work it out  ;)
Do not condemn the judgement of another because it differs from your own. You may both be wrong.

zenrat

If it didn't happen, then it's fantasy.

In this time line anyway.
Fred

- Can't be bothered to do the proper research and get it right.

Another ill conceived, lazily thought out, crudely executed and badly painted piece of half arsed what-if modelling muppetry from zenrat industries.

zenrat industries:  We're everywhere...for your convenience..

The Rat

'Reality'? Had to look up that word. Could be an interesting world to explore, but seems a bit restrictive.  ;D
"My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought, cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives." Hedley Lamarr, Blazing Saddles

Life is too short to worry about perfection

Youtube: https://tinyurl.com/46dpfdpr

PR19_Kit

Quote from: The Rat on June 23, 2018, 06:00:58 AM

'Reality'? Had to look up that word. Could be an interesting world to explore, but seems a bit restrictive.  ;D


CLASSIC! I love it!  ;D :wub:

Quote Wikipedia 'Reality is all of physical existence, as opposed to that which is merely imaginary.'

'Merely' imaginary? How DARE they!!!!  :o :o
Kit's Rule 1 ) Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage
Kit's Rule 2) The backstory can always be changed to suit the model

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

Regards
Kit