The Queen's Cup air races

Started by Rheged, February 17, 2017, 02:40:10 AM

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Rheged

I started this elsewhere, but have transferred it here as I feel that it suits this thread better.


I have AN IDEA!!  You are all aware of the King's Cup air race that began in 1922, and currently held at Shobdon,   just north of Chateau Rheged.   However  in Whiffworld, Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth gave a trophy for the Queen's Cup.  This is for propeller driven aircraft designed and/or built after 1st September 1939, and competed for annually from airfields such as Bournemouth, Prestwick or Llanbedr.  Racing takes place just offshore to satisfy the CAA.  Aircraft must be of UK or Commonwealth origin but any engine is acceptable.  If anyone wishes to augment or improve these rules, please do so.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King's_Cup_Race

Kit has made  an important addition to my initial thoughts, as shown below. 

I like that idea, it has 'Group Build' written all over it.
The entrants would have to be not in military service I think, as otherwise any RAF, or indeed foreign air arm,  team would have a 'works team advantage', and the Queen's Cup would risk going the same way as the J Division Thompson Trophy races.


I think that the backstory involves individuals and companies initially  using War surplus fighters (of which there were still a reasonable number around in 1953, when the trophy was first announced) gradually moving into turbine power.   The King's Cup is a handicap race, and I suggest that the Queen's Cup might be the same.  Everything is possible, from a classic Spitfire, through Typhoons, MB5s and CAC 15s to Wyverns.........and even ,if you want to go really wild,   a racing Welkin,  Beaufighter or Hornet.

From my point of view, I'd be happy to open this to already built  offerings as well as new builds......... There's a Monsoooooon elsewhere on this site  that's exactly the sort of thing I had in mind.









"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you....."
It  means that you read  the instruction sheet

perttime

British origins but not necessarily British operators?



Would turboprops or Norse deities as operators be OK?

Rheged

That will do nicely.  So long as it's a commonwealth airframe, anyone can play.
"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you....."
It  means that you read  the instruction sheet

PR19_Kit

Could we use pre-war aircraft if they're a] quick enough and b] Of suitable parentage?

I'm thinking of the Napier Heston Racer, and Perttime's lovely suggestion has its origins in the Heston, doesn't it? I just happen to have the Merlin kit of the Heston in The Loft too. [The word 'kit' is used here in its WIDEST possible sense.......... :o]

I'm rather taken with the idea of a racing Wyvern too, I have a couple of them stowed away somewhere.
Kit's Rule 1 ) Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage
Kit's Rule 2) The backstory can always be changed to suit the model

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

Regards
Kit

zenrat

What sort of race(s) are we proposing?
Sprint?  Endurance?  Cross Country?  Hurdles?  Steeplchase (the water jump would be a doozy!)?  Relay?
Fred

- Can't be bothered to do the proper research and get it right.

Another ill conceived, lazily thought out, crudely executed and badly painted piece of half arsed what-if modelling muppetry from zenrat industries.

zenrat industries:  We're everywhere...for your convenience..

jcf

Classically British 'handicapped' affair I'm afraid Fred, you know where often
the fastest is not actually the winner.
;D

So the question is, who would be doing the handicapping?, assigning of categories etc.?,
would there be a weight limit as was common in The King's Cup races?

A little bit about the problematic nature of 'aircraft handicapping':
http://www.afleetingpeace.org/index.php/the-kings-cup/kings-cup-aviators/66

and more on the inter-war King's Cup:
http://www.afleetingpeace.org/index.php/air-races/the-king-s-cup

Also British Racing and Record Breaking Aircraft, Peter Lewis, Putnam 1970; makes
it clear that air-racing in the UK post-WWII was a complex mix and they weren't quite
sure what to do with 'modern high-performance military-type aircraft' or how to fit them
in aside from 'special races' and such during the SBAC show etc.
"Conspiracy theory's got to be simple.
Sense doesn't come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated crap
actually is than they ever are about
whatever's supposed to be behind the
conspiracy."
-The Peripheral, William Gibson 2014

perttime

Quote from: PR19_Kit on February 17, 2017, 02:32:16 PM
...
I'm thinking of the Napier Heston Racer, and Perttime's lovely suggestion has its origins in the Heston, doesn't it?...
It is the Heston High Speed Aircraft J.5, flown on 12 June 1940 - with enlarged fin and rudder, more prop blades, some other "minor tweaks", and a Swedish sponsor.

Rheged

I hadn't worked out exactly how to handicap this, or a precise set of rules.  I had the idea of post 1939 commonwealth airframes  zooming along the coast without doing the detail. Invent what you think will give you the most modelling freedom.
"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you....."
It  means that you read  the instruction sheet

PR19_Kit

Quote from: Rheged on February 18, 2017, 09:18:19 AM
I hadn't worked out exactly how to handicap this, or a precise set of rules.  I had the idea of post 1939 commonwealth airframes  zooming along the coast without doing the detail. Invent what you think will give you the most modelling freedom.

We could follow the CanAm sports car race rules, where there was only one as far as I could see.

1) There are no rules...........  ;D
Kit's Rule 1 ) Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage
Kit's Rule 2) The backstory can always be changed to suit the model

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

Regards
Kit

jcf

Quote from: PR19_Kit on February 18, 2017, 09:23:32 AM
Quote from: Rheged on February 18, 2017, 09:18:19 AM
I hadn't worked out exactly how to handicap this, or a precise set of rules.  I had the idea of post 1939 commonwealth airframes  zooming along the coast without doing the detail. Invent what you think will give you the most modelling freedom.

We could follow the CanAm sports car race rules, where there was only one as far as I could see.

1) There are no rules...........  ;D

No rule?, no handicapping?, how un-British.
Sounds perfect.  ;D :thumbsup:
"Conspiracy theory's got to be simple.
Sense doesn't come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated crap
actually is than they ever are about
whatever's supposed to be behind the
conspiracy."
-The Peripheral, William Gibson 2014

Rheged

Quote from: PR19_Kit on February 18, 2017, 09:23:32 AM
Quote from: Rheged on February 18, 2017, 09:18:19 AM
I hadn't worked out exactly how to handicap this, or a precise set of rules.  I had the idea of post 1939 commonwealth airframes  zooming along the coast without doing the detail. Invent what you think will give you the most modelling freedom.

We could follow the CanAm sports car race rules, where there was only one as far as I could see.

1) There are no rules...........  ;D

And there is most certainly NOT a rule 6.
"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you....."
It  means that you read  the instruction sheet

PR19_Kit

Quote from: joncarrfarrelly on February 18, 2017, 01:45:15 PM
Quote from: PR19_Kit on February 18, 2017, 09:23:32 AM
Quote from: Rheged on February 18, 2017, 09:18:19 AM
I hadn't worked out exactly how to handicap this, or a precise set of rules.  I had the idea of post 1939 commonwealth airframes  zooming along the coast without doing the detail. Invent what you think will give you the most modelling freedom.

We could follow the CanAm sports car race rules, where there was only one as far as I could see.

1) There are no rules...........  ;D

No rule?, no handicapping?, how un-British.
Sounds perfect.  ;D :thumbsup:

The Formula Libra races at Brooklands in the 30s operated on similar lines, with one addition.

2] If the car goes over the banking, you've lost.  Oh, you're dead as well...............
Kit's Rule 1 ) Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage
Kit's Rule 2) The backstory can always be changed to suit the model

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

Regards
Kit

jcf

 ;D  ;D

So an off-shore course, to reduce the chance of spectator casualties,
rough groupings by displacement, a series of elimination heats,
winners move forward to final rounds? Or just let it go wide open
from the start, heats/positions assigned by lottery, winners advance.
"Conspiracy theory's got to be simple.
Sense doesn't come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated crap
actually is than they ever are about
whatever's supposed to be behind the
conspiracy."
-The Peripheral, William Gibson 2014

perttime

I'm for short courses with multiple laps. That would keep it more spectator-friendly. Not necessarily as short as in Reno but definitely something where you see more than take-off and/or landing.

zenrat

Racing against the clock or against other aircraft?  If against other aircraft then how many and can we have a Le Mans style start?  :mellow:

I have some ideas about other events (shot putt, high jump, marathon, rhythmic gymnastics) but i'll keep them for my Aerolympics builds...
Fred

- Can't be bothered to do the proper research and get it right.

Another ill conceived, lazily thought out, crudely executed and badly painted piece of half arsed what-if modelling muppetry from zenrat industries.

zenrat industries:  We're everywhere...for your convenience..