avatar_The Rat

Glueing balsa to plastic?

Started by The Rat, July 04, 2004, 07:27:46 AM

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The Rat

I snagged a weeny little model yesterday, a 1/220th Transall C160 turned out by some company named Lodela, from Mexico. In this tiny scale I'm really not going to sweat the details, but I don't want to treat this as just a toy.

Yep, you've got the picture, I'm doing a 'whiffer'.

I want to turn it into a flying boat. I am not one of these purists who believe that a model should be nothing but plastic, and if it's painted properly who can tell anyway? So I want to take the easy route, glue a balsa bottom on to it and carve it to shape, trouble is that I don't know the best glue to use. Contact cement? White glue? Or will the CA glue designed for wood and leather work?

I'm thinking of adding two more engines for more power, perhaps some underslung pure-jets a la the Lockheed Neptune or Fairchild C-123. In this scale some scrap sprue should be good enough, ditto for the wing floats.

Perhaps I should have it in RAF service, patrolling the Manchester Ship Canal for those pesky pirates said to cruise those murky waters.  :ar:
"My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought, cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives." Hedley Lamarr, Blazing Saddles
Youtube: https://tinyurl.com/46dpfdpr

John Howling Mouse

For propmaking, I'm often forced to bond two different materials together.  Usually wood and plastic, in fact.

I always find CA glue finnicky and not very dependable for most wood-to-plastic joins, even when it's the so-called "Wood/Leather" special variant.  Seems to be the divergent nature of the two materials involved: when the glue works on one, it seems to have little longterm effect on the other.

Unless, of course, you end up getting the slightest bit of CA glue on some wood you didn't want to be attached to anything else----then it is instantly inseparable, naturally!

3M's Super 77 and Super 90 will put any two items together but it comes in an aerosol spraycan which might not give you the control you need for such a small subject.  You could try spraying some into an old plastic container and quickly painting it on the surfaces to be joined with a brush.  It is available at leading home improvement centres.  

Could you try cutting out a thin panel of styrene to match the profile of your lower fuselage's cutline and sculpt Milliput (or cheaper equivalent) as your waterline hull onto this cut-out panel?  This way, if you're dissatisfied with a hull, it isn't already attached to your plane.  And the Milliput will definitely stick to the pre-sanded styrene panel and, of course, the styrene panel will be easy to glue onto the styrene fuselage of the model.

Either way, be sure to post pics!

^_^

Styrene in my blood and an impressive void in my cranium.

TsrJoe

iv had some luck previously glueing plastic onto obechi/balsa/lime by flooding it with liquid poly/dichlol/tolulene/chloroform, this melts the plastic into the woodgrain forming a bond.

another technique iv used successfully is bonding wood to plastic using urethane/epoxy/polyester resin, again this seems to bond chemically melting the plastic into the woodgrain.


happy modelling, cheers, joe  :ph34r:  
... 'i reject your reality and substitute my own !'

IPMS.UK. 'Project Cancelled' Special Interest Group Co-co'ordinator (see also our Project Cancelled FB.group page)
IPMS.UK. 'TSR-2 SIG.' IPMS.UK. 'What-if SIG.' (TSR.2 Research Group, Finnoscandia & WW.2.5 FB. groups)

The Rat

Quotepoly/dichlol/tolulene/chloroform
WHADDAHELLISDAT?!?!?!

It's probably illegal where I live, but I have a friend who may smoke it...

Is there a brand name?
"My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought, cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives." Hedley Lamarr, Blazing Saddles
Youtube: https://tinyurl.com/46dpfdpr

The Rat

#4
QuoteCould you try cutting out a thin panel of styrene to match the profile of your lower fuselage's cutline and sculpt Milliput (or cheaper equivalent) as your waterline hull onto this cut-out panel?  This way, if you're dissatisfied with a hull, it isn't already attached to your plane.  And the Milliput will definitely stick to the pre-sanded styrene panel and, of course, the styrene panel will be easy to glue onto the styrene fuselage of the model.
I herewith reveal a shameful family secret, which may cause me to die of embarrassment:

"Hello, um, my name's Dave, and, uh, I've... never used... Milliput."  :(

Well, that's out of the way.

Many years ago (more than 30 but who's counting?) I did a few mods to an Airfix Sunderland to convert it roughly to a Mk. V, which had those teardrop shaped radar housings under the wings. I know I carved them out of balsa, and I know they're still firmly attached, but I'll be danged if I can remember what I used.

I'm leaning toward roughing up the surface of the plastic a bit with some medium sandpaper to aid adhesion, and using white glue, industrial strength. Don't see why it shouldn't work. One thing that makes this a little easier is that the fuselage landing gear housings are separate parts, so there's no need to carve those off.

If I ever find another one, probably difficult since Lodela doesn't list them anymore, I might try converting it to an Air Cushioned Landing System.

Hey, how do you glue a vinyl 'O' ring to polystyrene?  :lol:
"My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought, cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives." Hedley Lamarr, Blazing Saddles
Youtube: https://tinyurl.com/46dpfdpr

Mairfrog

I've never used Milliput either. I've also never used Testors Acrylics, Tamiya masking tape or an Aztec airbrush. Must be why the IPMS won't have me.  ;)

White glue will do fine, it sticks well enough if you give it a chance to set. If it comes off during carving/sanding then just use balsa cement. This will melt the plastic in the way Joe describes.

TsrJoe

#6
vinyl to plastic...hmmm...a tricky one...ok after some experimentation (and sleeping off some hallucnegenic effects!) theres a glue made by ICI under the tradename of 'Tensol' avaliable in a number of thicknesses and used for glueing acrylic sheet (avaliable from your local 'perspex' stockist?) the standard type and the two part one both seem to bond vinyl onto plastic, as does tetrahydroflurane, also used in thje arcylic industry (possibly avaliable from chemical suppliers?

the stuff we all use for sticking models, ie liquid solvents, aka. eg, methylethylketone, dichlorometane, chloroform, etc. can all be purchased from chemical supply companies for very little money (typical scot, hahaha!)

other tips are the use of quick drying readymix smooth fillers for filling woodgrain for conversions, PVA (polyvinylacetate) white glue for filling small gaps and making fillets, and car body filler (the 'easysand varieties work best!) for large gaps, major conversions, etc. the latter can also be used as a crude 'Milliput' substitute, carving it to the required shape with a sharp scalpel whilst still in its 'jelly' stage!

happy modelling, cheers, joe  :ph34r:

ps...all of the above are toxic and potential carcinogens, i accept no responsibility for their misuse...as with most of our modelling materials, HANDLE WITH CARE!
... 'i reject your reality and substitute my own !'

IPMS.UK. 'Project Cancelled' Special Interest Group Co-co'ordinator (see also our Project Cancelled FB.group page)
IPMS.UK. 'TSR-2 SIG.' IPMS.UK. 'What-if SIG.' (TSR.2 Research Group, Finnoscandia & WW.2.5 FB. groups)

The Rat

Quotevinyl to plastic...hmmm...a tricky one...
I was actually half joking, but the info is appreciated. What I had in mind for an ACLS conversion was glueing a suitably sized 'O' ring on to represent the rubber skirt, and I believe that such things are a vinyl material.  
"My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought, cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives." Hedley Lamarr, Blazing Saddles
Youtube: https://tinyurl.com/46dpfdpr

nev

I have no idea if it would work or not, but how about Araldite?
Between almost-true and completely-crazy, there is a rainbow of nice shades - Tophe


Sales of Airfix kits plummeted in the 1980s, and GCSEs had to be made easier as a result - James May

Supertom

Gee, I thought Milliput was the staple of British model builders!
"We can resolve this over tea and fisticuffs!!!"

The Rat

QuoteGee, I thought Milliput was the staple of British model builders!
Is it even available here in Ontari-ari-ario?
"My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought, cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives." Hedley Lamarr, Blazing Saddles
Youtube: https://tinyurl.com/46dpfdpr

lancer

Funnily enough, I find Miliput hard to work with. I'm switching away from it and trying good old polyfilla as an alternative.
If you love, love without reservation; If you fight, fight without fear - THAT is the way of the warrior

If you go into battle knowing you will die, then you will live. If you go into battle hoping to live, then you will die