avatar_Weaver

Turbo-propped early jets

Started by Weaver, March 07, 2011, 01:08:16 AM

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Weaver

(Mods: feel free to move/merge this if it overlaps a previous thread)

In the early days of the gas turbine, there were various attempts, for various reasons, to put turboprops on existing jet airframes, the three that come to mind being the Meteor, the RF-84 and the XF-88. So what other early jets might have been suitable, and what would the results have been like? Would you turboprop the existing engine or replace it, or maybe add a turboprop as well as the jet (maybe making the latter smaller) for a mixed-power aircraft?

Non-exhaustive list (I know that some of these have already been modelled):

Grumman Panther - the one that gave me the idea: the Hasegawa kit's nose-cone is separate and the perfect size for a spinner

Flitzer
Vampire/Venom
Tunnan
F-84 (straight wing)
Seahawk
Ouragan
Mig-15/17
Banshee (mixed power)
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kitnut617

#1
The Sabre Dog would be an excellent subject.  This is actually my RR Crecy Fighter (24 cylinder two-stroke 'X' engine), but a turbo-prop engine would work just as well---  Fitting it with FJ-4 Fury u/c gives it plenty of prop clearance

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The Wooksta!

The Flitzer design, or something from the same family, was the subject of a turbo-prop.  The CMK/Airmodel resin kit is teh turboprop version and you have to snip off the blades to do the jet.  Nice kit - all one piece cast wings, fuselage and tailbooms.

There were drawing board proposals for turboprop Me 262s and Ar 234s.

The Blackburn Firecrest was to have got an AS Python but never did.  There's also mention somewhere that the Spearfish was to have had a turboprop engine too.
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Weaver

Kitnut - nice project: I like that!

Wooksta - yeah I knew about the Flitzerprop but I didn't know there was a model of it - cheers!
"Things need not have happened to be true. Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."
 - Morpheus in Sandman: A Midsummer Night's Dream, by Neil Gaiman

"I dunno, I'm making this up as I go."
 - Indiana Jones '

PR19_Kit

A cracking idea indeed, but some of them might be a bit low to the ground for propeller clearance. The Vampire and Venom being the obvious ones, you pretty much can look right over the top of a Vampire fuselage if you're standing alongside it.
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Regards
Kit

Weaver

#5
Indeed - didn't somebody do a pusher-prop Vampire and ground clearance was much-discussed?

I think you'd have to raid the stash for some P-39 nose gears and the like.

Other issues:

Where does the shaft go?

If the aircraft has a nose intake, what replaces it, assuming it's completely obscured by the prop? (mind you, it doesn't have to be obscured by the prop: there's always those ducted-spinner type intakes the Germans seemed quite fond of.)
"Things need not have happened to be true. Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."
 - Morpheus in Sandman: A Midsummer Night's Dream, by Neil Gaiman

"I dunno, I'm making this up as I go."
 - Indiana Jones '

kitnut617

Quote from: Weaver on March 07, 2011, 10:58:52 AM
Another interesting question is where the shaft goes....

On my project Kit, it runs under the cockpit floor.  Rolls Royce had designed an extention shaft for their Mustang FTB which was said to eliminate all vibration through it, the PSRU was placed just behind the spinner and the shaft connected directly to the engine block.  In the book about the RR Mustangs, there's some photos of it along with a number of other forward fuselage items that had got made at the time.
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jcf

The De Havillands would require either taller landing gear or a lowered wing, perhaps similar to the Sud SO 8000.


kitnut617

Quote from: joncarrfarrelly on March 07, 2011, 11:05:46 AM
The De Havillands would require either taller landing gear or a lowered wing, perhaps similar to the Sud SO 8000.



I've got the Akatombo kit of that Jon, I've always liked the look of it for some reason, considering I don't like most French designs
If I'm not building models, I'm out riding my dirtbike

The Wooksta!

#9
Quote from: Weaver on March 07, 2011, 08:30:23 AM
Wooksta - yeah I knew about the Flitzerprop but I didn't know there was a model of it - cheers!

It's one of the old CMK ones and in their old style, with a pretty basic cockpit (panel, seat & stick) and much of the airframe as a one piece cast.

It's not current but 2nd hand examples do turn up.  I'll keep an eye out if you want one?

Unicraft do one or two of the Napkinwaffe turboprop designs, the Me 262B variant being one of them, plus the Trent Meteor:
http://www.unicraft.biz/germ/fw127/fw127.htm
http://www.unicraft.biz/germ/fw281//fw281.htm
http://www.unicraft.biz/germ/wespe/wespe.htm
http://www.unicraft.biz/germ/me262tp/me262tp.htm
http://www.unicraft.biz/on/trent/trent.htm

"It's basically a cure -  for not being an axe-wielding homicidal maniac. The potential market's enormous!"

"Visit Scarfolk today!"
https://scarfolk.blogspot.com/

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The Plan:
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Weaver

Quote from: The Wooksta! on March 07, 2011, 02:47:34 PM
It's not current but 2nd hand examples do turn up.  I'll keep an eye out if you want one?

Nah, leave it, ta - for the hassle of doing a resin kit it'd be easier to convert the Revell one.
"Things need not have happened to be true. Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."
 - Morpheus in Sandman: A Midsummer Night's Dream, by Neil Gaiman

"I dunno, I'm making this up as I go."
 - Indiana Jones '

The Wooksta!

#11
It's an ideal introduction, believe me.  Looks dead simple.

Install cockpit bits, drop top coaming in place and fill.  Add prop, u/c & doors then paint.
"It's basically a cure -  for not being an axe-wielding homicidal maniac. The potential market's enormous!"

"Visit Scarfolk today!"
https://scarfolk.blogspot.com/

"She's died?!?  Then how's she meant to get the shopping home?"

The Plan:
www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic

NARSES2

Quote from: The Wooksta! on March 07, 2011, 03:27:59 PM
It's an ideal introduction, believe me.  Looks dead simple.

Install cockpit bits, drop top coaming in place and fill.  Add prop, u/c & doors then paint.

Have to agree there. Far easier then most injection kits, just different glue thats all.

I to like that Sud SO 8000. Have to have a look out for the Akatombo kit. Only place I know does them, apart from direct order, is in Paris. Anybody know any other sources ?

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Weaver

Here's a thought: McDonnell F-3H Demon. You could extend the gun bulge forwards as a shaft/gearbox housing.
"Things need not have happened to be true. Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."
 - Morpheus in Sandman: A Midsummer Night's Dream, by Neil Gaiman

"I dunno, I'm making this up as I go."
 - Indiana Jones '

Mossie

For low to the ground types, you could just extend the nosewheel for a nose up attiude.  I wondered about the MiG-9 for this as it is low.  Another thing is aircraft like the Thunderscreech had minimal ground clearance for the prop, so maybe you don't need too much clearance.
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