SARO PRINCESS

[Rheged]

Hello people,
   I’m new here, and I’m better with words than models and/or CGI. Can anyone use the backstory below?   I’m not territorial about my work and I’m happy to   let anyone take it to the next level if they feel it’s worth anything.

Once upon a time there were three Saro Princess flying boats “cocooned” at Calshot. Following threats by Juan Peron of Argentina (not widely reported at the time) these three flying boats were hastily re activated to move an interim garrison of Royal Marines to Port Stanley in January 1955.  This proved an unexpectedly successful procedure and two of the princesses, later named Anne and Margaret Rose were  taken into R A F service as Princess MC1 (marine communications) in  a reactivated 119 Squadron. The third  Princess was used for trials purposes, initially of the Bristol Proteus and later the super priority development of the Rolls Royce Tyne.  Eventually, with 6 Tynes each of 5,500 shaft horse power, and a range of 8,000 miles this aircraft became the prototype of the MR2 variant. One trial had involved radar upgrading and the aircraft had been painted black to provide a visible target. When carrying  trials armament, it became known as “The Black Prince”   

By 1962, 119 Sqn was running 15 Princess MC 1A  transports and 240 Sqn   was   taking delivery of 12 Saro Prince MR2 aircraft.  Curiously, 240 squadron was based at Lough Neagh in Ulster, with an outstation on  Loch Ness as it was assumed that operating   from fresh water would be better for the corrosion life of the hulls.  Armament varied widely, with one trials aircraft carrying a huge radar in the nose and no less than 12 air to air missiles. This aircraft, Prince Andrew to its crew, was unofficially classed as  Prince F5A, the world’s largest fighter.

By 1969, the Princesses were all upgraded to MC3 standard with the exception of “Anne”, which was rebuilt  to CC4 specification . The following year, Anne became the  “Royal Yacht” during the Queen’s 1970 tour of Australia and New Zealand. These aircraft  had the 7500 shp  Tyne  as standard.

In 1973,  with the Nimrod coming into service , 240 Squadron’s  Princes were gifted to the state of British Columbia  for conversion into water bombers.

Following the tremendous success of the VC10 and BAC 3-11 aircraft in commercial service, the RAF agreed to run their now elderly  Princesses on for as long as possible, in order to maximise commercial sales of UK aircraft.  10 aircraft were upgraded to    M3A standard, and 5 reduced to spares.  The  Princess was eventually  retired from RAF service in late 1983.  119 Squadron’s last major task had been to transport, in one lift,  a full battalion of the Border Regiment including  their equipment  to  the Falklands in February 1982.  This deterred the Argentine Junta from any further “adventures” and is believed by many to have averted an invasion of the islands..


Commercial and export sales of the  Princess were very few, but  BOAC ran  a fleet of 8 of them to the West Indies and  Tasman used 3 on their regular Sydney  to Wellington service.

The Prince was more widely used. Canada flew a total of 15 on long range flights, using a couple of depot ships on the Great Lakes in addition to fixed bases   at Vancouver and  Halifax. Australia and New Zealand had  10 Princes operating in a joint ANZAF  Squadron.   The  USN and USAF  tested aircraft leased from the RAF (in US livery)  but  did not acquire any. Three were sold to NOAA, and are still (2011) on their inventory although only one is in flying condition.


Can anyone   illustrate this??

Added 18.01.11--- See Maverick's profile thread for a magnificent series of Princesses

[Doc Yo]

 I don't know about illustrating it, ( Certainly not graphicly-and I don't know if anyone ever made a kit* ) but
its a marvelous alternate history for a truly beautiful aircraft. And Welcome to Whif!






* But I'll bet Anigrand might, eventually.

[PR19_Kit]

Oh joy! 

Someone's at long last taking the Princess seriously! I just LOVE the backstory, and just wish it had happened like that too. I was lucky enough to see G-ALUN fly at Farnborough in 1953 (and only just heard her, even with ten engines!) and I actually touched one of them at Calshot a year or so later. I've never washed that hand since of course. 

I can't recall anyone ever doing a plastic kit of a Princess in any scale, and I'm surprised Contrail didn't, but it would have been a SWINE of kit to make if they had, deep draws not being their forte at all.

I too could see Anigrand doing a Princess kit, and it would need a World Bank loan to cover it, but I'd be applying for one definitely! I'd have thought that the A-Model's fiberglass/styrene approach would actually work quite well for a Princess but it would be equally as expensive as an Anigrand kit.

There's an excellent freeware FS9 version of the Princess available that may be a scource for your illustrations, I may have a go at a few of them.....

[Green Dragon]

New I'd heard about a vacform 1/72nd Princess somewhere! http://seawingsblog.blogspot.com/2010/08/saro-princess-in-172nd-scale-kit.html

Paul Harrison

[Mossie]

You don't get much for your money, about 50 quid for just the basic outline.  No surface details, props or undercarriage.

[Riksbar]

There were plans in the 60s to resurrect the Princess hulks as Guppies for NASA. shame they went with the Stratocruisers.

[Maverick]

Welcome aboard Rheged,

If there's a 3 view out there that's workable, I'll give it a crack.  I'll have a look around.

Regards,

Mav

[PR19_Kit]

Ah yes, that Jim Lind 'kit' rings a bell somewhere, I think someone here mentioned it before, but a while ago now.

My money would be on Robert in Canada, kitnut617, it's JUST his sort of model! 

As for the FS9 version I mentioned above, one of then already is an RAF one! They say one is BOAC, but it isn't, it's in the 2nd, tarted up scheme that G-ALUN flew in. Screenies of the three versions below, in suitably chosen FS locations.


G-ALUN in original all NM scheme at Southampton Marine Terminal


G-ALUN in 2nd scheme flying past at Farnborough


RAF Princess C Mk. 1 moored at Calshot

[kitnut617]

Ah yes, that Jim Lind 'kit' rings a bell somewhere, I think someone here mentioned it before, but a while ago now.

My money would be on Robert in Canada, kitnut617, it's JUST his sort of model! 

Herrill's Execuform produces the 1/72 vacuform, I'm going to get one sometime in the future, along with their Hughes Hercules (Spruce Goose)

[PR19_Kit]

Herrill's Execuform produces the 1/72 vacuform, I'm going to get one sometime in the future, along with their Hughes Hercules (Spruce Goose)

See, we know you too well Robert.  

I'd have we'd have at least had some props for the Princess though, Aeroclub probably won't have any of THEM as a stock item! And as for 'undercarriage' the Princess doesn't actually have one, but the beaching gear is a MONSTER of an affair. Somewhere I've got some piccies of it, and it's about 15 ft high as I recall!

[kitnut617]

Is there a possibility of getting some of those pics please Kit ?

[Maverick]

Rheged,

I'm happy to report that I do have blanks for the Princess, in fact I did two maritime-configured profiles as suggested by Greg (GTX) back in 2008.  They can be found on my Photobucket account, but I'll add your thoughts on alternate markings for the type to my list and they'll appear in due course in my thread.

Regards,

Mav

[Rheged]

Thank you all for your warm welcome to the wonderful, whimsical world of What If. I will try to maintain the enviably high standards of  material I have been reading here.

I'm  interested in the 1950s  as this is the period when so many amazing aircraft  very nearly happened. There might even be a Brabazon or SRA1 backstory lurking in the undergrowth in the next few weeks.

Mrs Rheged has come up with a slightly surreal image that you might like to consider......Just imagine  (if you can)  a fleet of Princesses transporting package tourists to Lloret and Magaluf.  Court Line and Skytrain liveried aircraft  gliding onto the beach and disgorging hordes of whey-faced white skinned  passengers at the start of their trip, and scorched, red-skinned , burned and peeling queues waiting to return to Southampton or Greenock. These aircraft  had bulk tanks of Calamine lotion and After-sun fitted !!

[NARSES2]

Fantastic entry to the site 

I've always loved these huge flying boats and just wish I'd been able to see them in action. Landing and taking off in a float plane is great fun so in these monsters it must have been 

I'm  interested in the 1950s  as this is the period when so many amazing aircraft  very nearly happened. There might even be a Brabazon or SRA1 backstory lurking in the undergrowth in the next few weeks.

Like you I think this was an amazing period of aviation history. From the mid 40's through to mid 50's 

Mrs Rheged has come up with a slightly surreal image that you might like to consider......Just imagine  (if you can)  a fleet of Princesses transporting package tourists to Lloret and Magaluf.  Court Line and Skytrain liveried aircraft  gliding onto the beach and disgorging hordes of whey-faced white skinned  passengers at the start of their trip, and scorched, red-skinned , burned and peeling queues waiting to return to Southampton or Greenock. These aircraft  had bulk tanks of Calamine lotion and After-sun fitted !!

Oh yes 

[PR19_Kit]

Is there a possibility of getting some of those pics please Kit ?

Which pics Robert? The beaching gear?

I'm looking for them myself at the moment, archived in some monster drive somewhere no doubt <sigh>