Author Topic: Hawker Sea Hunter development - the Hawker Herne, 1962  (Read 9488 times)

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Offline rickshaw

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Hawker Sea Hunter development - the Hawker Herne, 1962
« on: December 13, 2010, 05:13:00 am »
As related in this build thread, the RN FAA adopted the Hawker Sea Hunter in 1958.  The FAA was delighted with their new fighter.  Finally they had something as good as the RAF!  However, it was a visual only interceptor, which was not suitable for use in the cold and stormy North Atlantic when defending the fleet against possible Soviet bombers.

Their Lordships therefore requested that Hawker do something about this state of affairs!  Sir Sydney Camm responded with a proposal to adopt the Hawker P.1109 to shipboard use.  Equipped with an AI intercept radar and two or four Firestreak IR guided Air-to-Air missiles, it seemed like an ideal solution.  However their Lordships listening to what their experts in the FAA said, demurred.  They believed that using a radar and flying a plane was too much for one man and asked if it was possible to make the P.1109 a two seater.  Camm of course agreed and offered the P.1109 adapted to carrying two crew, utilising the tandem seat trainer nose which was not adopted by the RAF, with an uprated Avon engine offering an extra 1,000 lbs of thrust to compensate for the heavier weight of the radar and it's operator, it was accepted.  After trials, the tail was enlarged to compensate for the longer nose and it was in this form that it was adopted for service by the FAA, first seeing service in 1962.   As a consequence of their Lordships desire to differentiate themselves from the RAF, the aircraft was renamed the Hawker Herne - Herne of course being the Celtic God of the Hunt.  Usually carrying two, on short range intercept missions it could carry four Firestreak missiles, along with its two 30mm Aden Cannons and was able to detect possible threats at medium range with its radar in the dark or bad weather.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2010, 04:04:47 pm by rickshaw »
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Offline rickshaw

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Re: Hawker Sea Hunter development - the Hawker Herne, 1962
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2010, 05:22:51 am »
For this build, I'll be using the excellent little Revell Hunter F. Mk.6 kit:



And a combination of the resin Hunter Tandem Trainer nose made by OGL and the Freightdog Hunter P.1109 nose:



Now, a word of caution.  I can't recommend using the Revell kit with the Tandem Trainer nose.  It wasn't meant to be and only after a great deal of cutting, filing and cursing was I able to make it fit but more of that anon.

The first job was putting the P.1109 nose and the Tandem Trainer nose together.  After some careful measuring, I put the Tandem Trainer nose into the mitre box and cut it away.  I also cut away the section under the nose where the nosewheel and twin cannon troughs went on the P.1109 nose.  I also cut away the mould plug on the P.1109 nose:



Now, after joining them together I add the obligatory Milliput and sanded it away to merge the two together:

« Last Edit: July 31, 2017, 01:03:40 am by rickshaw »
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Offline rickshaw

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Re: Hawker Sea Hunter development - the Hawker Herne, 1962
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2010, 05:48:01 am »
Now, this is where we get to why I don't recommend the Revell kit for use with the Tandem Trainer nose.  The Revell kit, has a much slimmer fuselage than either the old Matchbox kit (the one the nose was actually intended for) or the venerable Airfix kit.  In addition, it has inset wing roots.  These make for a great deal cleaner wing joins but it means that the already narrower fuselage is even narrower again!  I looked at this for sometime, trying to figure out a remedy.  The only one I could come up with was to remove a lot and I mean a lot of resin from the Tandem Trainer nose, around the rear cockpit in order to make it fit the Revell fuselage.

So, out came the heavy file and I started filing.  In the end, I removed ~3mm of resin and about another ~0.5mm of plastic from the inside of the wing root.  In both cases, what was left was a paper-thin wall of plastic on the fuselage and of resin on the side of the Tandem Trainer nose.  This photo is a little unclear but you can see how I've filed away one side of the nose side, by the rear cockpit:



The other side I cheated.  I used a razer saw.  I knew how much I needed to cut away and it was a lot quicker.   :lol:

Here is the rear fuselage.  You'll note the differences between the two halves.  I got a little over-enthusiastic on the first one.  Nothing a little Milliput can't fix.   ;D



You'll also see how narrow the space is between the wing roots.  About 9mm!  Considering the Tandem Seat nose is about 16mm wide at that point, you can see why I had to remove so much resin!

Which brought me to another problem.  While trying to fit it, I broke the paper-thin wall on one side of the rear cockpit.  So that was replaced with a piece of 10 thou plasticard.



« Last Edit: July 31, 2017, 01:08:00 am by rickshaw »
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Offline rickshaw

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Re: Hawker Sea Hunter development - the Hawker Herne, 1962
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2010, 05:58:29 am »
Here is all three parts glued together.  P.1109 nose, Tandem Trainer nose and Hunter fuselage:





And here is the obligatory picture with loads of Milliput, ready for PSR:



Which brings me to my next discussion point.  Those who have the Tandem Trainer nose will know it comes with a cockpit fairing, which is intended for use on the fuselage spine.  I looked at it again and had a bit of think and in the end discarded it.  It was malformed.  Far too thick and seemed to me to be well, twisted along its length.  So I discarded it and decided to make my one from Milliput, which is visible behind the cockpit.  A bit of sanding and that I think will look fine.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2017, 01:10:24 am by rickshaw »
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Offline kitnut617

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Re: Hawker Sea Hunter development - the Hawker Herne, 1962
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2010, 06:21:51 am »
I'm going to watch this one, I've got the same plans for the two seater I got from OGL too.  Don't have the nose yet though ---
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Offline Martin H

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Re: Hawker Sea Hunter development - the Hawker Herne, 1962
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2010, 08:51:19 am »
So this is the "secret project" you kept mentioning lol

Ill be watching this one with interest.
I always hope for the best.
Unfortunately,
experience has taught me to expect the worst.

Size (of the stash) matters.



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Offline PR19_Kit

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Re: Hawker Sea Hunter development - the Hawker Herne, 1962
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2010, 11:01:26 am »
Oooh yes, that does look promising indeed. I like the multi-nose bit, and it should make a REALLy different Hunter.

Rickshaw and I had a few PMs about doing this conversion with the Revell kit, and my first attempts were totally disastrous, with similar problems that rickshaw found, but multiplied a few times. In addition I found the cockpit fairing needed to be cut into the top of the Revell fuselage, as the Revell kit already has a single seater fairing there anyway, and getting that accurate enough was darn nigh impossible.

I'm inclined to agree that the Revell kit, while being admirable in many ways, is not the ideal counterpart for the tandem 2 seater conversion.

Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

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Offline Martin H

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Re: Hawker Sea Hunter development - the Hawker Herne, 1962
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2010, 12:48:32 pm »
Now he tells us lol
I always hope for the best.
Unfortunately,
experience has taught me to expect the worst.

Size (of the stash) matters.



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Offline TallEng

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Re: Hawker Sea Hunter development - the Hawker Herne, 1962
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2010, 12:52:09 pm »
Anybody know where one could obtain such a conversion for the Tandem Hunter?
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Offline rickshaw

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Re: Hawker Sea Hunter development - the Hawker Herne, 1962
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2010, 04:06:04 pm »
So this is the "secret project" you kept mentioning lol

Ill be watching this one with interest.

Hehehehe, I did say I "had plans", didn't I?  Its taken this long to get a P.1109 nose out of Colin at Freightdog.   ;D
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Offline NARSES2

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Re: Hawker Sea Hunter development - the Hawker Herne, 1962
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2010, 01:40:51 am »
Like a few others I'm looking forward to this one  :thumbsup:

Anybody know where one could obtain such a conversion for the Tandem Hunter?

Try PM'ing Martin H
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Offline Martin H

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Re: Hawker Sea Hunter development - the Hawker Herne, 1962
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2010, 09:00:15 am »
dont bother, im out of em for the moment.

I have heard a rumor that Whirlybird (who own the old maintrack masters) are planning a short run of them.

It seems some one grassed on me for cloning them. So the reverend  is looking at getting it back into production.
I always hope for the best.
Unfortunately,
experience has taught me to expect the worst.

Size (of the stash) matters.



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Offline Pablo1965

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Re: Hawker Sea Hunter development - the Hawker Herne, 1962
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2010, 04:00:24 pm »
It is one of the most difficult plane to change, or modify. It's a merit. :thumbsup: :cheers: :bow:

Offline James

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Re: Hawker Sea Hunter development - the Hawker Herne, 1962
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2010, 12:54:24 am »
Will be keeping an eye on this one!  :cheers:

Offline buzzbomb

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Re: Hawker Sea Hunter development - the Hawker Herne, 1962
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2010, 08:12:45 pm »
Nice.. very nice