Antisubmarine Fighter Squadrons

[Jschmus]

The photo of the day from the National Naval Aviation Museum features a lineup of A-4 Skyhawks belonging to VSF-1, aboard USS Independence in 1968.  According to my research, the Antisubmarine Fighter Squadron was created to provide detachments of Sidewinder-armed A-4s to the antisubmarine carriers for defense.  The concept was sort-of superseded during the Vietnam conflict, when most of the CVS carriers deployed to that theater with embarked F-8 fighter squadrons, but the concept lives on today with the AF-1s deployed on the Brazilian carrier São Paulo.

The thing is, for a moment I had this vision of Skyhawks equipped for the antisubmarine role, stooging around at low altitude toting torpedoes, sonobuoys and MAD gear.

[Weaver]

Weeeeelll, early carrier anti-sub ops used the hunter-killer concept, with one aircraft carrying the sensors to find the sub and the other the weapons to kill it, mainly because carriers couldn't operate a big enough aircraft to combine the riles. Now say carrier ops had evolved in another direction, with smaller carriers: you might still have something like an Alize doing the hunting and light attack aircraft carrying a couple of torpedoes and a lot of drop tanks. On a small carrier with a limited air complement it would certainly add flexibility, since all the ASW capability could be switched to light attack and recce/patrol/SAR if needed.

[dy031101]

The S-3, after losing their ASW gears, is said to still be capable of "vectored attack" with torpedoes.

It would probably not going to be too much of a stretch to equip a fighter jet that way.

F-8 onboard the CVS would probably have functioned in the same way as the A-4 before it in peacetime?  I've always wondered if Brazilian acquisition of the Skyhawk is because of availability......

[Weaver]

I've always wondered if Brazilian acquisition of the Skyhawk is because of availability......

Almost certainly: wern't they Kuwait's cast-offs?

What else could they operate off the Sao Paulo? Rafales (too expensive)? F-18s (only maybe and not available to SA countries until recently)? Super Etendards wouldn't be any advance on the Skyhawks.....

[Jschmus]

I've always wondered if Brazilian acquisition of the Skyhawk is because of availability......

It's that and commonality with Argentina's A-4AR Fightinghawk.  Both variants are essentially A-4Ms modified to local specs.  Because they tooled up around the same time, Brazil and Argentina combined their training assets, and have done exercises together.  It's my understanding that the Fightinghawks have operated in exercises from the Sao Paulo, so that opens up interesting possibilities.

[dy031101]

Almost certainly: wern't they Kuwait's cast-offs?

My thought exactly.  And yes, Argentina is operating a variant of the Skyhawk as well.

Super Etendards could have been as much of a choice...... if there are spare airframes and parts for them.

It's my understanding that the Fightinghawks have operated in exercises from the Sao Paulo, so that opens up interesting possibilities.

That I didn't know (because I figured that since the Fightinghawks are under air force jurisdiction......).

[GTX]

What about Harriers or Sea Harriers in the Fighter/ASW role - fit a torp on one side and a pod mounted dipping sonar on the other...

Regards,

Greg

[Geoff]

How about a TA-8 with a sonarbouy launching pod opposite the torp, and a WSO in the back seat?

[MAD]

What about Harriers or Sea Harriers in the Fighter/ASW role - fit a torp on one side and a pod mounted dipping sonar on the other...

Regards,

Greg

How about a TA-8 with a sonarbouy launching pod opposite the torp, and a WSO in the back seat?
Geoff

I like it!
I like it lots

In fact the harrier`s low speed/hovering capability would be able to deliver its ASW torpedoes much closer to the targeted submarine, without retard parachute.
Any doodles/profiles of your thoughts gents??

M.A.D

[Cliffy B]

In Tom Clancy's The Hunt For Red October he has a new ASW version of the Sea Harrier in use on board HMS Invincible.  It was described as a modified tandem seat trainer with sonobouy pods and torpedoes.  The Invincible  group was doing a week long ASW exercise with the US Fleet and apparently the Sea Harrier performed extremely well in the ASW role, sinking a Los Angeles Class sub. One of them flew Jack Ryan from the US to the RN fleet, a scene (among many) the was left out of/re-written for the movie.  Its near the beginning/middle of the book.

[JoeP]

The Argentinians used to, and may still do, touch-and-gos on US carriers that come within flight range.

The Dutch operated a light carrier, as did the Aussie. India still does. What fighter aircraft might they have used in a dual-purpose role? Maybe MiG-29Ks for India.

[dragon]

I've always wondered if Brazilian acquisition of the Skyhawk is because of availability......

Almost certainly: wern't they Kuwait's cast-offs?

What else could they operate off the Sao Paulo? Rafales (too expensive)? F-18s (only maybe and not available to SA countries until recently)? Super Etendards wouldn't be any advance on the Skyhawks.....

So far by what I have seen, I would not want to play poker against Lula.  After reading the above, I wonder if the approachment with Iran and "friendly" relations with Venezuela aren't ploys to get F-18s from the US as an "Olive Branch", should the US want to get the Brazilians away from those influences.  Makes you wonder.....

[PR19_Kit]

The Argentinians used to, and may still do, touch-and-gos on US carriers that come within flight range.

The Dutch operated a light carrier, as did the Aussie. India still does. What fighter aircraft might they have used in a dual-purpose role? Maybe MiG-29Ks for India.

As a side-bar, the Dutch and Argentinan carriers were/are the same ship in fact. The former HMS Venerable was sold to the Dutch Navy in the late '40s as the HNLMS Karel Doorman and  in turn was sold to the Argeninian Navy as the ARA Veinticinco do Mayo.

[Geoff]

In Tom Clancy's The Hunt For Red October he has a new ASW version of the Sea Harrier in use on board HMS Invincible.  It was described as a modified tandem seat trainer with sonobouy pods and torpedoes.

Ah I have read that - I wonder if thats where I got the idea from?

[lenny100]

In Tom Clancy's The Hunt For Red October he has a new ASW version of the Sea Harrier in use on board HMS Invincible.  It was described as a modified tandem seat trainer with sonobouy pods and torpedoes.

Ah I have read that - I wonder if thats where I got the idea from?

just finished a build based on that idea photos soon