Author Topic: Tiger Force  (Read 8934 times)

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Offline NARSES2

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Re: Tiger Force
« Reply #45 on: January 10, 2019, 06:00:11 am »
I think one of the "problems" with anything you read about Tiger Force is that none of the plans could be considered definitive and that none had come anywhere near facing the acid test of "reality". In some ways it's very similar to those books which were written to pontificate on "Plan 1919". I don't have a problem with that providing someone doesn't try to tell me that "they really know what would have happened".

It's ideal ground for people who want to speculate or just model it  :thumbsup:
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Online kitnut617

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Re: Tiger Force
« Reply #46 on: January 10, 2019, 06:18:44 am »
What articles I've been reading has been in the Air-Britain quarterlies, where the information has been found at Kew. Mostly accidentally from the comments made by the authors as they had been there researching for something else.
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Offline NARSES2

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Re: Tiger Force
« Reply #47 on: January 10, 2019, 06:27:49 am »
The most recent articles I've read come from the same source, but as the authors readily admit the plans were only plans and were constantly being changed even at that late date. A lot of those reasons for change were financial, some political and some just on the basis that the UK was absolutely worn out  :-\

Still they are the best available and in a lot of ways I'm glad they never had to be put into practice. Meant my Dad could come home and his younger brother didn't go out there until after the War had ended.

Kew is an amazing source. I helped a friend do some family research* there and the number of times you ended up being led off on a tangent was incredible.

We were looking at some R.G.A. WWI battery diaries. Fantastic couple of days  :thumbsup:
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Offline Old Wombat

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Re: Tiger Force
« Reply #48 on: January 10, 2019, 07:24:10 am »
All the 1919 & 1946 plans were & are only a basis for making your own fictional stories from. None were ever more than lightly sketched outlines of the bare bones of a plan.

The General Staff(s) hadn't had any input, the politicians hadn't said their piece, the intelligence organisations hadn't added the flies to the ointment, no-one had started arguing with anyone & being sacked or resigning over trivialities, & Major General Sir Percy Cleghorn Stanley Hobart hadn't come up with any weird bits of kit to use, yet.

Although Tiger Force was, probably, more advanced in its planning than many other elements, it was still, mostly, Paper Tiger Force.

My thinking (actually for an Australian involvement in the invasion of Japan) has been that ground vehicles would all end up wearing white 5-pointed stars on their tops (at least) along with their national & unit markings, while non-US aircraft would either all wear US star-&-bar markings, possibly with national tail markings as per Op. Torch, or blue-&-white-roundel-&-bar. The SEAC markings, I believe, are unlikely to have been used as they were too different to what the Americans were used to - & at least a circles-&-bar marking looks a bit like the star-&-bar markings at a distance.
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Offline zenrat

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Re: Tiger Force
« Reply #49 on: January 11, 2019, 03:18:25 am »
And the Russians?  The Red Army would be coming from the North like a hot knife through butter.
IIRC the agreement was Uncle Joe would wait three months after VE day before attacking.
I can't see them painting white stars on their equipment.

Fred

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Offline NARSES2

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Re: Tiger Force
« Reply #50 on: January 11, 2019, 06:34:52 am »
or blue-&-white-roundel-&-bar. The SEAC markings, I believe, are unlikely to have been used as they were too different to what the Americans were used to - & at least a circles-&-bar marking looks a bit like the star-&-bar markings at a distance.

Yup the BPF "roundel and bars" is what I think would have been used.

And the Russians?  The Red Army would be coming from the North like a hot knife through butter.
IIRC the agreement was Uncle Joe would wait three months after VE day before attacking.
I can't see them painting white stars on their equipment.


I assume the Red Army that did attack through Northern China in 1945 used their standard markings and would continue to have. If they had invaded the Japanese home islands (and I've no idea if they had the logistical where with all) then I don't think they would have changed. There would have been distinct theatres of operation for the Soviet and the other allied forces. If and it's a big if the Soviet forces had encountered any major Japanese air opposition then they might have had to consider introducing some form of I.D. marking to encounter any confusion caused by the Red Star and Hinomaru ? My personal view is that they would have stuck to the mainland.

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Offline Old Wombat

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Re: Tiger Force
« Reply #51 on: January 11, 2019, 06:46:54 am »
The Soviets had plans to invade northern Japan but fell short of specialist logistics transport (landing craft, etc.). They would have had to wait for the other Allies to invade &, hopefully, draw almost, if not all of the northern defensive units down south before they could mount a successful landing using established port facilities. Once on the ground, however, & with unrestricted movement between mainland Asia & Japan, they had the numbers in vehicles & aircraft to roll over just about any opposition they faced (including US/Commonwealth forces).
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Offline rickshaw

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Re: Tiger Force
« Reply #52 on: January 11, 2019, 03:12:03 pm »
The Soviets did invade several Japanese held places by sea.  They had a bit of a struggle initially getting ashore with the landing craft they had (they were limited in numbers) but usually the Japanese gave up quite easily.  The best of the Kwantung Army (in Manchuria) had been withdrawn to the home islands by 1945, only the less able troops were left behind.  It was basically terrain that was the biggest opponent.   Jentz has an excellent book, "August Storm" which was published by the US Army which goes into the Soviet offensive in considerable detail.  The Russians had learnt their lessons well from the Germans in Europe.   They applied those lessons in the Far East with gusto.
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