Indian Nations airforces

[anthonyp]

Somewhere, I've got a backstory where the Native Americans (as well as central American natives) were put on their reservations, but were allowed to arm themselves against ancient blood oathes against other tribes.

This is a Cherokee Nation FH-1 Phantom, flown by Chief Aviator, Flys-with-Eagles, as shown in the Cherokee-Mohawk War of 1972.  I've got more planned, along with a misplaced write-up...

[Tophe]

Nice model . About the colours: is it 2-tone grey or/and skyblue? Difficult to be sure from the photos

[pyro-manic]

Looks blue to me. Interesting concept!

[anthonyp]

grey and sky blue

[Sauragnmon]

Tony's gone native!

Nice work, man - the camo looks good, and the markings are just wicked.

[Okwaho]

The Cherokee-Mohawk War of 1972? Yep, that really is a what-if story, since my people never fought the Cherokee. Algonquins and Hurons, sure. As far as ancient blood oaths against other tribes, most First Nations didn't indulge in them. Most wars were fought to gain additional hunting grounds, and with the arrival of the Europeans, trade wars. Will be interesting to read your back story, though.

One glaring error you've made, however, is using the medicine wheel for the "Cherokee" insignia. The four colours of the medicine wheel represent the four races of mankind, and our interconnectedness with each other. If you want to use the proper Cherokee marking, simply use the wreath and seven-point star from the Cherokee Nation flag below.



Other than that, the model came across very nicely. Looking forward to seeing more work from you.

Skennen. (Peace.)

[sequoiaranger]

One of these days I will make a twin-engined P-40 that I will call the "Navahawk", as used by the Navajo native Americans to help out the WW II effort. I haven't yet thought out the "national emblem", but will probably make a British-type roundel with the red center being a "mitten" from the famous rock formation found on Navajo land.

But I like the idea of "First Nation" air forces!!

[Okwaho]

Sequoiaranger, here you go. Should give you some insight on how to do the markings.

Navajo Nation seal



Navajo Nation flag

[Okwaho]

Somewhere, I've got a backstory where the Native Americans (as well as central American natives) were put on their reservations, but were allowed to arm themselves against ancient blood oathes against other tribes.

I showed this to a few friends from other First Nations, and we all agreed: we wouldn't be fighting each other because of ancient blood oaths, we'd be hammering the people who put us on reservations in the first place. Where we had conflicts amongst ourselves before the arrival of the Europeans, what happened since would bring us together.

A better synopsis: have the back story (stories) deal with the First Nations remaining in their original territories (where the Europeans came to trade, but never took over the lands, and technology was part of this bartering process). It opens up a lot more for everyone to have a field day with. 

[rickshaw]

Okwaho, are you aware of this book by Martin Cruz Smith (more famous for his Gorky Park series of detective novels)?

Its a counter-factual history about how the Native Americans beat the Europeans.  Cruz Smith sets it as a series of flashbacks against the end of the Vietnam War which the United States has just won.   So its a double-counter-factual history, if you like. 

Its a reasonable story and as recounted, quite possible.

[anthonyp]

Thanks for the corrections!  When I was coming up with this, I was looking on the web, but couldn't find too many clear graphics for the decals I was creating.

I'll have to get with you (probably next year) when I pick up this project again to make sure the markings jive and backstory makes (some semblance of) sense.

[sequoiaranger]

Okwaho--Thank you for posting the Navajo nation seal.

I don't quite know how to incorporate all that into a "simple" cocade, but at least I will have symbols/colors to choose from that are "real" rather than something I concocted.

Another question would be, was that seal adopted/invented prior to 1943? That is, was it "real" in 1941/42, or adopted later? To me, time frame is important. If the seal was a "recent" (i.e. post-war) development then I wouldn't use it, but might incorporate symbols that would "later" become the seal.

[Okwaho]

Going to try to answer all the comments in one group shot, so please bear with me. Hope I don't lose you guys in the attempt.

Rickshaw, can't say that i have seen the book, but definitely will put it on my to-get list.

Anthonyp, always happy to help. Too many people go by Hollywood's interpretations of the "noble savage" (a term which we do find offensive) and don't realize that we (the individual nations) are all different in several ways, just like Europe. Even our appearances don't follow the movies; there is indeed differences in our facial  and tonal features across the First Nations/First Peoples. If you get a chance, take in a pow wow and see what I mean. We have an international pow wow coming up at Akwesasne Mohawk Territory September 11th and 12th, so I will take some pix and post them here if you like.

And one very important thing to remember: unless the person you meet is a Lakota Sioux, never ever say "How" as a form of greeting. "Hau" is the proper word for that nation and used only by the men, but every other nation will either reply "Why?" or get miffed at you. Our languages are quite different. For example:
Mohawk - She:kon (pronounced say-go) or Kwe (gway)
Choctaw - Halito
Ojibwe - Aniin/Boozhoo

Sequoiaranger, the Haudenosaunee (Mohawk, Oneida, Onondaga, Cayuga and Seneca) symbol/flag seen in my signature has been around for several hundred years, long before the first white man appeared. Most of the seals/flags for the nations have only recently been decided upon within the last twenty or thirty years. The Cherokee alone have four different flags, one for each of their four bands. The flag of the Miccosukee Tribe of Florida is similar to the German flag. The Navajo Nation flag was officially accepted on May 21, 1968; the seal was adopted on January 18, 1952. If you want to fudge it a bit, take the seal and do a cleaner version of it, and you can't go wrong. The bulk of the First Nations/First Peoples never had flags prior to the 1950s and 1960s, so no harm done trying to backdate the "national markings" as close as possible.

[jcf]

Further to Okwaho's comments, out here on the Northwest Coast, First Nation cultures are dramatically different from the 'Hollytwood' norm. There is also some evidence of contact with shipwrecked Chinese and Japanese sailors well prior to the
advent of the Europeans (Spanish, English, Russian) and the Americans.

As far as the Europeans in the Western Hemisphere are concerned and finding a change point for an alternate history, motivations have to be borne in mind.

The following is very simplified but it can be stated that the Spanish came to conquer, the French came to trade and the English came to stay.

The Spanish imposed their feudal system on the lands they conquered, with themselves at the top and the surviving indigenes (those that hadn't died in the mass epidemics or been killed) as a New World peasant class.

The French established trading communities, forts and outposts and commonly inter-married with the First Nations people, France was interested in extracting anything of value available in the New lands yet was not in a hurry to establish an overseas extension of the State.

The English came to live in the New World, to stay and expand, as a result this led to conflicts with indigenous groups that led to policies of displacement and removal. Policies that were maintained and expanded after the founding of the USA.

[Okwaho]

If we went along with the Europeans not taking over North America, but chose to engage in trading wars involving the First Nations as their surrogates, I can see where the latter would be able to obtain surplus, if not first-line, military hardware and continue their territorial disputes. Then again, individuals or small groups could be hired as mercenaries to serve in the European and Pacific theatres. Like the Poles in the RAF, these FNs could boast their tribal flag/seal/motif on their aircraft, while still sporting the national markings of the parent squadron.

Since the US won't exist, neither will its immense production capability, so most conflicts may remain minor or not last as long due to attrition. Of course, gone will be the American favourites: Mustang, Corsair, Hellcat, Flying Fortress, etc. Without Lend-Lease, the Brits and the Soviets will probably find themselves more inhibited and hardpressed. With all this in mind, won't be surprising to see British, French, German and Russian aircraft in First Nations' service.

Just a thought.