avatar_TsrJoe

Question - Soviet PVO in Finland

Started by TsrJoe, August 31, 2009, 03:53:21 AM

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TsrJoe

as an interesting counter topic to Geoff's 'USAF/E in Finland thread and touched upon in a previous posting, http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,21263.msg301720/highlight,finnish+air+defence.html#msg301720

... during the early 1960s there was a state of emergency where the Finnish President was called to Moscow to address issues of US./NATO. overflights of Finnish territory en route to the USSR and satellite states

''From the 1950s the PVO's principal role was to be ready to intercept United States Strategic Air Command bombers and reconnaissance aircraft if they penetrated Soviet airspace''

.. as overflights became more common throughout the early 1960's one could envisage a situation where the USSR. would want to base air defense equipment in Finland in order to 'defend their airspace' as per agreements made in 1948

initial thoughts re equipment deployed when chatting previously with Geoff might include Soviet Mig.19 and 21 and later Su.15 based at Rissala, Kupio etc. Sa.2 missiles? etc.


any further thoughts, cheers, joe


hmm, a finnish roundel added to the tail for propeganda reasons might look pretty good as a distinct ident for the theatre of deployment (the Finn's have actually used the marking in this position both times to cover existing national insignia, there is an image of a MIG.21F with tail roundel as well as the current ex Swiss Hawk covering the original tail marking
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nev

Interesting idea - to take the Finnish markings one stage further.  How about the more advanced Soviet aircraft wearing full Finnish markings, but being flown by Russian "advisors", the idea being that Finland aren't trusted enough to have the latest and greatest, but its unacceptable politcally for the PVO to be based in Finland?

Seeing as the problem is overflights (I'm guessing by SR-71s), in the 70s you could get some "Finnish" Mig-25s :)
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Geoff

Quote from: nev on August 31, 2009, 09:10:51 AM
....... How about the more advanced Soviet aircraft wearing full Finnish markings, but being flown by Russian "advisors", the idea being that Finland aren't trusted enough to have the latest and greatest, but its unacceptable politcally for the PVO to be based in Finland?

That was my feelings on the matter. I think the IA,PVO would use bogus Finnish markings. I will post a pic of the Su-15A I did if I can sort out my camera.

Martin H

Quote from: nev on August 31, 2009, 09:10:51 AM
How about the more advanced Soviet aircraft wearing full Finnish markings, but being flown by Russian "advisors", the idea being that Finland aren't trusted enough to have the latest and greatest, but its unacceptable politcally for the PVO to be based in Finland?

Wernt the Finnish Fishbeds prety much the latest model of the day? As they nominaly had a war role under soviet command, it was in Moscow's best interest to keep the Finnish front line air assests upto date.  But I like the idea of PVO fighters in Finnish markings operating on the other side of the border.

On a side note, Moscow bent over backwards to try and sell Floggers to Finland in the late 70's offering prety much the same varient as used by the PVO at the time.
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Geoff

#4
The Finns got their first Mig-21F's in 1963, so it was pretty much state of the art for a close defence fighter at the time. The Mig-21PF radar equipped interceptors were not put into production until a year later.
I believe the Finns looked at the Mig-23 as a replacement for the -21's, but IIRC the export version of the Flogger had the same radar as the late model Mig-21's. Also I suspect real world costs dictated getting the Mig-21Bis.

Geoff

I like Nev's idea of Mig-25's. Must check the stash.

upnorth

I definitely see latitude for the Su-11 in Finland.

How about the TU-128 Fiddler being based there? that's make SAC think twice!
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Geoff

The Fiddler would be great for patroling along the Norwegian and Swedish borders.

upnorth

Quote from: Geoff on September 04, 2009, 10:35:54 AM
The Fiddler would be great for patroling along the Norwegian and Swedish borders.

I was thinking more along the line of a rapid reactor force of Fiddlers stationed in Lapland to meet SAC aircraft coming over the pole.
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Geoff

Quote from: upnorth on September 04, 2009, 10:50:52 AM
Quote from: Geoff on September 04, 2009, 10:35:54 AM
The Fiddler would be great for patroling along the Norwegian and Swedish borders.

I was thinking more along the line of a rapid reactor force of Fiddlers stationed in Lapland to meet SAC aircraft coming over the pole.

Ahh ok, I was thinking about a standing patrol of Fiddlers. With something like a force of Mig-25's, or another type that can accelerate rapidly standing a QRA. But the range of the Fiddler certainly lends itself to the arctic operations.

upnorth

Beyond the PVO, what do you think of having Soviet naval aviation regiments located in the southern reaches for Baltic patrols.

Say a unit or two of SU-24 Fencers for recce and anti shipping work?
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Geoff

Works for me - Perhaps Su-17's to start with replaced with the -24?

TsrJoe

re previous equipment suggestions on the thread some artwork inspiration from John Lacey ...

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BillSlim

QuoteAs they nominaly had a war role under soviet command, it was in Moscow's best interest to keep the Finnish front line air assests upto date.

Now that's interesting, especially since a while back I had a conversation with a Finn regarding their armed forces for AH purposes. He observed that during his National Service the 'enemy' was always presumed to be the Soviets; none of this 'Blue' vs 'Red' in their exercises.
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Geoff

Because of the 1948 treaty with the USSR the Finns adopted the Paasikivi doctrine which obliged Finland to resist armed attacks by Germany or it's allies on Finland OR the USSR through Finland, and if necessary to request Soviet military aid to do so.

However I have also heard the Soviets were presumed to be the likely enemy.