Me-410 Single-seaters?

Started by apophenia, January 06, 2009, 09:39:18 PM

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apophenia

In Greg's Bf-110 thread there's a number of on single-seater concepts.
http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,22588.0.html

That got me to wondering why the Luftwaffe persisted with two-seat heavy fighters. I know that the GIB changed ammunition drums, etc, on the 110. Was that all there was to it?

It occurred that weight saved by getting rid of the Number 2 could be reinvested in armour for runs at those Allied bombers (at least until those pesky long-range Allied fighters start showing up).  Anyway, a few single-seat 410 concepts ... [Images deleted to spare Download File]

BTW, in an old thread on "Me-410H" ideas, Gary mentioned a single-seater (albeit a racer).
http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,12260.15.html

Maverick

Different look for the bird, a bit like the XF5F in a way I guess.  Maybe as a ground attack machine it'd have more of a life, even to the point of re-engining like Greg did with radials for extra survivability.  As a pulk-zestorer, I kinda see it getting hacked up pretty well by Allied escorts as I don't think the savings in crew-weight would lend to any greater agility.

Regards,

Mav

Just call me Ray

Looks a lot like a DeHavilland Hornet/Sea Hornet.
It's a crappy self-made pic of a Lockheed Unmanned Combat Armed Rotorcraft (UCAR), BTW
Even Saddam realized the hazard of airplanes, and was discovered hiding in a bunker. - Skydrol from Airliners.net

Weaver

Seems like as good a place as any to ask:

A guy on another forum is asking if there's a good book on the Me-410: any recomendations?
"We thank you, but this diversion is not true. Things never happened thus."

"Oh, but it IS true. Things need not have happened to be true. Tales and dreams are
the shadow-truths that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."

- Sandman: A Midsummer Night's Dream, by Neil Gaiman

McGreig

#4
Quote from: Weaver on December 03, 2009, 04:24:27 AM
A guy on another forum is asking if there's a good book on the Me-410: any recomendations?

Midland Counties/Ian Allan "Messerschmitt Me-210/Me-410 Hornet - An Illustrated Production History" by Peter Petrick and Werner Stocker. This was published in 2007 and should still be available. It's done in a similar size and format to their "Classic Publications" series and it covers the Me-210/Me-410 in detail and even has a chapter on proposed developments.

Weaver

"We thank you, but this diversion is not true. Things never happened thus."

"Oh, but it IS true. Things need not have happened to be true. Tales and dreams are
the shadow-truths that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."

- Sandman: A Midsummer Night's Dream, by Neil Gaiman

GTX

How'd I miss this thread - great work :thumbsup:

Regards,

Greg
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

McGreig

Quote from: apophenia on December 03, 2009, 03:20:03 PM
Yeah but do they have any single-seaters in that book?  ;D

Oddly enough, no. ;D They illustrate development proposals for versions with annular radiators, radial engines, long span wings, auxiliary BMW-003 jets, torpedoes, a new nose reminiscent of a Ju-388 and X-4 missiles (although not all on the same airframe :rolleyes:), not to mention three seat trainers and night fighters with three-cannon Schr├Ąge Musik instead of the normal barbettes.

But no single seaters. And Midland Counties books are usually so comprehensive - maybe we should write and complain about the incomprehensible lack of single seater information - - -  :wacko:
PS - really like the version with the Me-262 canopy. :cheers:

McGreig

Quote from: McGreig on December 04, 2009, 01:33:43 PM
Quote from: apophenia on December 03, 2009, 03:20:03 PM
Yeah but do they have any single-seaters in that book?  ;D
Oddly enough, no. ;D

Except that they do. :o On page 31 you find:

"The anticipated B-29 was expected to come in at above 10,000 metres, an altitude which the Me-410 could not be expected to attain. However trials with the GM-1 system demonstrated that the Me-410 could reach heights approaching 11,500 metres. The barbettes and the radio operator would possibly have to be eliminated in the effort to achieve such altitudes and Messerschmitt undertook yet more studies to see whether a conversion was possible."

That'll teach me to read the text and not just look at the pictures! :rolleyes:

GTX

Never made it to hardware, so yes!

BTW, do you have any more pics?

Regards,

Greg
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

jcf

Actually boys, they did exist, however, from what I've seen the single-seater (einsitziger) 410s are pretty much just that,
single seat 410s. No new canopy etc.

Externally the big difference is the absence of the gun turrets and a mildly
modified canopy, with an armored windscreen and the gunners glazing being
replaced with a metal fairing.
Internally; no gunner station/seat, two additional fuselage fuel tanks and DB 603 Gs
with GM-1 nitrous oxide injection system.

Messerschmitt Bf 110, Me 210, Me 410 by Mankau and Petrick has a written description, a fuselage
internal arrangement drawing and two photos of II./ZG 26 Me 410 A-1/U-2 'Einsitzers'.

So while an einsitziger 410 is not a Whif, apo's 262 canopied bird is.  ;D
"Conspiracy theory's got to be simple.
Sense doesn't come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated crap
actually is than they ever are about
whatever's supposed to be behind the
conspiracy."
-The Peripheral, William Gibson 2014

GTX

My hat off to you sir - always glad to be upstaged by someone with more extensive knowledge.

Regards,

Greg
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

McGreig

Quote from: joncarrfarrelly on December 05, 2009, 09:28:23 PM
Actually boys, they did exist

Back to Petrick & Stocker for the third time :rolleyes: and sure enough, there it is :o

Although they don't seem to mention the actual single seaters in the text (as opposed to the projected high altitude versions), if you trawl through the Gallery section you come across two photos and a profile of Yellow 7 of II/ZG26, with no barbettes or aerial mast and a plated over rear canopy. The only comment on the conversion is that these items were "removed since they were superfluous and probably increased the aircraft's speed".

See below for cropped parts of the profile and a photo showing the changes.

jcf

Photo and drawing from Mankau and Petrick.


Cheers
"Conspiracy theory's got to be simple.
Sense doesn't come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated crap
actually is than they ever are about
whatever's supposed to be behind the
conspiracy."
-The Peripheral, William Gibson 2014

GTX

My version of a Me-410 Single seater - modified to look different this time:



regards,

Greg
All hail the God of Frustration!!!