avatar_Hman

Martin XB-51 (aka Gilbert XF120)

Started by Hman, December 28, 2008, 10:32:05 AM

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Doc Yo

 Wonderful footage of that beautiful old brute...the forward engine placemmnt probably wasn't the best
choice for an attack aircraft, but I doubt the mechanics complained... ;D Thanks for thelink.

PR19_Kit

I note the uploaders comments mentioned something like '....the XB-51 was a better aircraft but the USAF ordered the Canberra because of it's greater range'.

Excuse me, how could the Martin be better if it didn't have longer range? The facts are that the XB-51, although faster, couldn't turn anywhere near as well, and nor could it fly the Atlantic un-refuelled, unlike the Canberra. The Canberra's weapons load was a lot more as well, so what made the XB-51 'better'?

Someone will be suggesting that the Boeing 707 was the 'World's First Jetliner' soon........  >:(
Kit's Rule 1 ) Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage
Kit's Rule 2) The backstory can always be changed to suit the model

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

Regards
Kit

jcf

Quote from: PR19_Kit on December 29, 2008, 01:40:35 PM

Someone will be suggesting that the Boeing 707 was the 'World's First Jetliner' soon........  >:(

Yeah, everybody knows it was the AVRO Canada C102 Jetliner

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Jon



tinlail

Surely the Martin XB-51 was a important stepping stone towards the much more successful Martin B-57.

;D

Maverick

Tinlail, the "B-57" was merely a reconfigured Canberra with the B-57A being an analog of the Canberra B.2 Bomber.  Later B-57s (eg B, G, etc) merely translated the cockpit into a tandem config and added some guns to the wings.  To suggest that the type is a Martin design is insulting to the English Electric company in my opinion, although you've got the smiley afterwards so I'm hoping it's a tongue-in-cheek comment.

Regards,

Mav

tinlail

I looked for a bigger smiley, but I couldn't find one!
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I'll make it up in volume.

jcf

Quote from: Maverick on January 29, 2009, 06:30:06 PM
Tinlail, the "B-57" was merely a reconfigured Canberra with the B-57A being an analog of the Canberra B.2 Bomber.  Later B-57s (eg B, G, etc) merely translated the cockpit into a tandem config and added some guns to the wings.  To suggest that the type is a Martin design is insulting to the English Electric company in my opinion, although you've got the smiley afterwards so I'm hoping it's a tongue-in-cheek comment.

Regards,

Mav
Tinlail is obviously having us on.

Anyhow the B and on models of the B-57 were much more than just a 'reconfigured' Canberra.
The B-57B incorporated extensive redesign: new forward fuselage, air brakes on the aft lower fuselage,
rotary bomb-bay (a Martin design and only on the B-57), revised wing fuel system and structure to
accommodate the wing guns, massive systems revisions to use US equipment and procedures etc. etc.
The B-57B and follow-on marks were a very different animal compared to their British siblings.

"merely translated the cockpit into a tandem config",  if only airframe redesign was that simple.  :banghead:

Jon

Maverick

Jon, whilst I realise that the redesign wasn't quite that simple (internal views I've seen of the B-57B point out many of the type's new features), without the original B-57A (ie: a British designed machine), the later B-57 marques would not have existed.  Like it or not, Martin based their design quite heavily on the British machine.  No design = No B-57B or later.

Regards,

Mav

PR19_Kit

Quote from: joncarrfarrelly on January 29, 2009, 05:34:37 PM
Yeah, everybody knows it was the AVRO Canada C102 Jetliner

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

In which case they know wrongly.

It was, is, and ever more will be the De Havilland COMET!

And that goes for the first jet to inaugurate Trans-Atlantic travel too......
Kit's Rule 1 ) Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage
Kit's Rule 2) The backstory can always be changed to suit the model

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

Regards
Kit

tinlail

This is great fun, I knew I was poking some fun I just didn't realize how much.

Any one want to talk about the fabulous Packard V-1650 engine now?

jcf

Quote from: PR19_Kit on January 30, 2009, 02:01:32 AM
Quote from: joncarrfarrelly on January 29, 2009, 05:34:37 PM
Yeah, everybody knows it was the AVRO Canada C102 Jetliner

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

In which case they know wrongly.

It was, is, and ever more will be the De Havilland COMET!

And that goes for the first jet to inaugurate Trans-Atlantic travel too......
It's a joke, Son... I say... I say... a joke.


The Jetliner is the only jet airliner that was actually named Jetliner.
Do ya get it now?

jcf

Quote from: tinlail on January 30, 2009, 09:04:40 AM
This is great fun, I knew I was poking some fun I just didn't realize how much.

Any one want to talk about the fabulous Packard V-1650 engine now?

Let's go... winfups are so much fun.

bluedonkey99


  not whiffery, but whilst we are talking XB-51,  here is a resin XB-51 in 1/144 it  made from a Don Schmenk cast of a Bryan Gibbens master...

 

PR19_Kit

Quote from: joncarrfarrelly on January 30, 2009, 09:26:36 AM
It's a joke, Son... I say... I say... a joke.

The Jetliner is the only jet airliner that was actually named Jetliner.
Do ya get it now?

Son? Hardly..........

Yes, I know the point that was being made, but I'm taking the opportunity to get back at Boeing in particular and American aviation historians in general for (probably deliberately....) getting it wrong for the last umpteen years.

And with big letters like that no-one's going to miss it!

I'll treat the 'Packard' V-1650 with the contempt it deserves as well......
Kit's Rule 1 ) Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage
Kit's Rule 2) The backstory can always be changed to suit the model

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

Regards
Kit