Meteor PR19?

[PR19_Kit]

At the moment just a question?

Should I re-post the story of the Meteor PR19 here, or is the darn thing already so notorious it doesn't need further airing?

[The Rat]

I just polled the resident whiffers in my house and the vote was unanimous, 1 - 0 in favour!

[Ed S]

Can't say that I'm familiar with this one.

Ed

[PR19_Kit]

Ed,

To quote Bing Crosby 'You must be one of the newer fellows'.............. 

This is the Meteor PR19, a 'What If' made infamous in it's own lunchtime.

[NARSES2]

Possibly the most famous/notorious WIF in the UK  Go on tell the newbies the story including the US connection - you know you want to 

[PR19_Kit]

Actually I'm not sure if I do...... 

Every time the darn MM script 'escapes' into the outside world it seems to generate a new wave of appearances, and I end up with more emails about it. I got one from the guy who runs the user-driven 'Harpoon' computer game site about what the PR19's performance figures were '.....as you're always listed as the expert on the aircraft's history'!!! That took a few days of working out what the performance might have been, in all three variants, if Armstrong-Whitworth had got their act together and actually built it!

I'll edit the original script, and put the model bit at the FRONT this time, and post it later today. After I've been to the dentist.....

[PR19_Kit]

Right then, I hope you're sitting comfortably as this does go on a bit....

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Meteor PR19 - The 1/72 Scale version

I've always had a particular liking for reconnaissance   aircraft, for obvious reasons as my Dad flew them, and some years back, in the pursuit of the more weird and wonderful aspects of this interest, I decided to do an RB-57F Canberra.  Then I took a long look at the number of mods needed to make one from the only available Airfix kit, and decided that perhaps I wouldn't! Time passed, and when the Italaeri B-57 appeared I took another look at the project. It all seemed much more possible, apart from those HUGE TF-33 engines. Back it went on the back burner until I found that DB were doing the engine conversion in resin, along with the auxiliary J-60 engines.  I bought the conversion set, and started on the project.

A quick look at the plans showed something slightly wrong with the TF-33s, and the application of a ruler soon showed they were about 1/81 scale. A slightly embarrassed Dave Buttress told me there was a 'slight mistake', and they would be bringing out the correct size ones soon. This they did, along with vac-form wings and fin, making my job a whole lot easier. I stored the odd size ones in the bits box, and got on with more modelling, and there they might have stayed forever if my son-in-law hadn't found them last Christmas time while looking for a spare nose for an A-6.

I recounted the tale of the RB-57F, and he asked me what I was going to do with the odd scale engines now.  A good question, I thought, and that is where the PR19 started. I was working on a few projects at the time (I can't build less than about four models at the same time...............) and three of the current batch were an RF-4C Phantom, a U-2, and an NF14 Meteor. The U-2 had only got as far as the cockpit, and somehow the sight of the gigantic wings triggered off the thought of a U-2/Meteor with the underscale 'TF-33s' attached. It only took about 10 secs. from the time Neil asked the question until I could see the thing flying along at 98,000 feet in my minds eye.

A bit of research into time-scales showed that historically it was almost possible, so in my head I re-wrote the aviation history of the late 50's and early '60s, and started on the project.  The 'TF-33s' almost fell onto the front end of the Derwent cowlings after a couple of re-runs, and two plasticard 'sugar scoops' under the exhausts, like the later U-2s, seemed to suit the general scheme of things quite well. The U-2 outer wings needed just a little trimming until their chord matched the Meteor properly, the Lockheed's tailplane was an almost exact fit, and the only real problem was the nose. I just couldn't imagine the RAF needing big heavy radar set on a recce Meteor, but what else could I use?  The answer was in front of me! I cut off the nose of the U-2 just inside the windscreen edge, and turned it upside down. The front of the cockpit fitted exactly into the nosewheel bay.....

From there on it was plain (plane?) sailing, a couple of early Mark ejector seats from Aeroclub, a re-hash of the rear instrument console, and the spare camera bay from the RF-4C under the nose did the job. I toyed with fitting the auxiliary engines but they looked a little OTT, but it did need that little extra something. A belly fuel tank looked almost right, and then more inspiration struck.  A UK Phantom recce pod might just look the part.  Unfortunately, a Meteor is a lot lower than an F-4M, and the pod just wouldn't fit. The lower half on it's own was just enough though, and with a few extra aerials the main construction was done.

The colour scheme took a little thought, but a photo of a Welkin on the cover of SAM provided the inspiration. I put a coat of PRU Blue on the underside and Light Aircraft Grey on top. With D type roundels on the upper side of the wings, it seemed only natural to put B type roundels on the lower surfaces; after all, the opposition would be looking UP at this particular aircraft. Borrowing from Mike McEvoy's thought processes, I needed a Squadron to fly this aerodynamic wonder and after some searching I came across 13 Squadron. They always have been a secretive bunch, and I found that they seemed to be based in more than one place at the same time during the appropriate period, so their fin badge came off a Matchbox Canberra PR9. The serial stumped me for a bit until I found a mysterious gap of 12 aircraft in the middle of the Meteor NF14 production batch. By now I was beginning to believe in it myself! That just about completed the project apart from writing up the fictional history that you might find elsewhere.

I never did manage the U-2, but now I'm retired one would make a nice pair with the PR19. Oh yes, I didn't do the RB-57F either, the conversion kit is still in the Italaeri box, and I'm starting wonder what it would look like with a couple of DB's CFM-56s on it.........

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Just building the model should have been enough, but the further events in this saga are due to two people, Ian Hartupp and Roger Wallsgrove. Ian, the leader of the 'What If' SIG at the time, suggested that I write up the story of the model for the newsletter, and  'while I was at it', knock off a few lines about the theoretical full size history.

So I did. Knock off a few lines, that is, but only up to 1960.

At the '93 Nationals, Roger, in a fit of madness, voted the PR19 winner of the Mushroom Monthly Trophy  (Thank you, Roger), and suggested that I supply Mushroom Monthly with the entire full-size PR19 saga, and the plans.

The plans? What plans?

As you can see from the tale above, there weren't any.  It just sort of fitted itself together in my head and then it got transmogrified into plastic without any additional help.

Having already hinted at the existence of an earlier and later version of the PR19 in the model's caption, I wrote up the rest of the full size story, and drew the plans in parallel, making sure that if it came to the crunch I could build models of the other two versions using already available bits. In fact the PR19b already exists to an extent, as I've done the fuselage and the ex-TR1 wing etc.  I just have the smaller engines and Meatbox fuselage for the earlier PR19 version collected together so far.

I finished the whole project the very night the BBC showed the Timewatch programme about RAF B-45s and the U-2 flights.  Funnily they didn't mention the PR19 at all.................


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As the history of the real version of the PR19 takes this thread over the site limit, I've posted it as a separate thread.

[Ed S]

Thanks,

Nice model.  And a good story to go with it.

Ed

[The Rat]

WHEEEEEHEEEEEEEE! Glad to finally hear the whole story, I've been drooling over that bird since I first saw it on the old MSN Groups front page. 

Actually I'm not sure if I do...... 

Every time the darn MM script 'escapes' into the outside world it seems to generate a new wave of appearances, and I end up with more emails about it. I got one from the guy who runs the user-driven 'Harpoon' computer game site about what the PR19's performance figures were '.....as you're always listed as the expert on the aircraft's history'!!!

Hey, if you can fool someone into believing it then you should feel honoured. I actually had somebody fall for this contraption!

[The Rat]

Didn't someone (an Argie) complain about it?

Yeah, here.

[PR19_Kit]

Glad you like it guys, thanks.

Fitting my brainwaves into what really happened in history is good fun too. If you write in enough real truths, and ensure they stand up to a couple of levels of digging many people will just believe it. There really IS a 12 aircraft gap in the A-W Meteor NF14 serials which no-one can explain. And 13 Sqdn. really did have a small flight based at Watton when the main Squadron was out in Akrotiri.

Mind you, there are some people on the staff at the Cosford RAF Museum who'd cheerfully hang me from the Victor's tail I expect. 

Wooksta,

Kit, you've got to post the RN Pogo too!

I was wondering about that. It's sitting up there in my display case with a look of disdain on its face, primarily because it can go straight up when the PR19 sitting alongside needs a runway.....

        

And that's the Grumman S4-B Sentinal next to it as well, and the story that goes with that has never has been posted anywhere before.

Erm, how much disc space do we have on this site?

[ysi_maniac]

I love all these three models!!

[kitnut617]

Arc?  That figures... 

Reason I don't go there too often anymore Lee, got tired of it.

Kit:  marvelous, I had wondered what the story was after seeing it on The What If and Odd Ball forum front page.

[SSgt Baloo]

Right then, I hope you're sitting comfortably as this does go on a bit....

  Fantastic A/C! Could you possibly supply me with dimensions (and reference pics) of this A/C so I can try to draw it in 3 views? I'd be much obliged if you would.

[PR19_Kit]

Fantastic A/C! Could you possibly supply me with dimensions (and reference pics) of this A/C so I can try to draw it in 3 views? I'd be much obliged if you would.

Erm, hang on a second, read the bit about '....It only took about 10 secs. from the time Neil asked the question until I could see the thing flying along at 98,000 feet in my minds eye.....' again.

Reference pics? Where would there be any? All there are are the ones of the model on here and others taken at various shows. I've already done the drawings, enclosed below.