avatar_david sMiGielski

Baltic What-ifs

Started by david sMiGielski, September 06, 2008, 08:10:55 AM

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david sMiGielski

I need some advice. I recently found a source for Latvian and Estonian markings and I'm planning on doing a series of near future Baltic builds. My initial instinct was Latvian F-16A MLU's, Lithuanian F-16Cs, and Estonian Gripens.

But here's where I'm torn. Vipers and Gripens seems so no duh. I'd like to build something I don't already have a ton of in my stash. For example, would old Viggens or Tornado F.3s still have enough life in them to be of use to a small, not too wealthy Baltic nation?

I'd be interested in any other ideas people might have too.



How did the country lose its way...when did we stop rooting for the man with a flame-thrower or an acid-spraying gun of some kind?

Ed S

Well, there are still countries flying F-4 Phantoms, A-7 Corsairs, Mig 21's and Mirage III's, all basically 60's jets.  So  I don't see any reason that Viggens, Tornados, Jaguars, Mirage F-1's or other 70's/80's jets couldn't be in active service for a lot more years.

We don't just embrace insanity here.  We feel it up, french kiss it and then buy it a drink.


Tornado is definately not a problem, it's of a similar vintage to the F-16 & the RAF will soon be off-loading a fair few.  Jaguar is a little older & the RAF just sold off a lot, mostly to museums & such but they would have made a hefty addition to smaller less wealthy air forces.  Viggen again was recentley off-loaded by Sweden & it's not too much of a stretch to see that girl uprgraded a bit & a sweet deal done with the Swedes.

The only thing I'd say against those particular aircraft is they are a little 'unfashionable', especially the Viggen & Tonka as they are both outside of current 'thinking'.  Doesn't mean it couldn't happen though.  It's not unknown for some manufacturers to produce upgrades for ageing aircraft and offer them as 'new' aircraft to nations not able to afford something bright & shiny.

Another option is if you do want to go for something 'bright & shiny' is that smaller air forces occassionaly acquire a small number of modern aircraft to bolster larger forces of older or less capable aircraft.  So an air force made up by a bulk of F-16's with say half a dozen Typhoons or Rafales might not be too much of a stretch.

Although both nations are now NATO members, ex-soviet equipment isn't completley out of the question, there have been several recent MiG-29 & Su-27 upgrades that might be very attractive.

And to sum up, any frontline aircraft in the same camo as the blue/greys Estonian L-39 would be v.:ph34r:!!!
I don't think it's nice, you laughin'. You see, my mule don't like people laughin'. He gets the crazy idea you're laughin' at him. Now if you apologize, like I know you're going to, I might convince him that you really didn't mean it.


Perhaps something in the class of the Hawk100 or AMX might be more appropriate?
Between almost-true and completely-crazy, there is a rainbow of nice shades - Tophe

Sales of Airfix kits plummeted in the 1980s, and GCSEs had to be made easier as a result - James May


Outlandish, but maybe with a new cold war brewing post Georgia, the USAF transfers some of its older F-15s or even A-10s to these countries to bolster the "front line".


All hail the God of Frustration!!!


From a practical slant, maintenance needs would be a big determiner in selecting a particular type, especially if it's an older generation A/C, as well as making sure to have a reliable source of replacement parts.

shas b)
Take Care, Stay Cool & Remember to "Check-6"
- Bud S.


Shasper is right about maintenance , i would think the F-5 would fit the bill, but then again-- Its What-If! There are plenty of smaller nations armed to the teeth with the latest and greatest. Its usually because they have valuable natural resources but hey maybe Latvia strikes oil?
"Imagination is the one weapon in the war against reality." -Jules de Gaultier

"My model is right! It's the real world that's wrong!" -global warming scientist

An armor guy, who builds airplanes almost exclusively, that he converts to space fighters-- all while admiring ship models.


If we want to go for practicality, the only one of the modern western fighters would be the Gripen really.


All hail the God of Frustration!!!


Of course if you needed justification, you could always allege that your country was being taken over by (insert stereotype here). :wacko:  That should guarantee bright & shinys by the boatload.




Unless it's Godzilla, then you're better off with an ice gun ;)

Shas 8)
Take Care, Stay Cool & Remember to "Check-6"
- Bud S.


Well the primary mission in each case would be air defence against a hoarde of MiG-29s and Su-27s at short range, so anything less modern and agile than an F-16 would be in trouble. Re-fitted Viggens might just pass muster, but I'd hesitate to put Tornado F.3s into that scenario. If you want to be different, how about Mirage 2000s? Maybe in the whiffiverse the Rafale programme ran a bit quicker, thus allowing the Armee de l'Air to offload 2nd hand Mirage 2000s early in the 21st century......
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 - Morpheus in Sandman: A Midsummer Night's Dream, by Neil Gaiman

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 - Indiana Jones '


Another possibility would be for some single and dual seat L-159 ALCAs:


All hail the God of Frustration!!!


its a good thing that when you go into Whiffing kits anything is possible. Sweden is in real life crushing as many of it's Viggens as it can that are not going to museums and gate guarding.


That's a nice looking L39!

The Tornado F.3 might not be a viable option for a small Baltic country.  Not only would the MX be an issue as Shas pointed out, but it is a long-range missile carrier, designed to work as part of an integrated system with AEW and Fighter Controllers directing it to BVR kills.  The best future use of the F.3 would be as an RAF SEAD platform, but that will likely never happen. 

As the "Deal of the Century" F-16 users transition to Typhoons, Grippens, and the like over the next few years I imagine quite a few F-16s may come avialable.  They are still highly capable mulit-role fighters that might fit the bill for this whif scenario (as long as they get painted something other than gray!!).   ;D
So I got that going for me...which is nice....


Upgraded Mig-29's?
But I agree the early F-16's second hand are probably the most likley if only due to cost and availability.