avatar_kitbasher

Gloster Guardian - Munich Crisis fighter

Started by kitbasher, August 05, 2008, 10:27:38 AM

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kitbasher

It's been done before and it'll be done again, I guess, so here's my take on the monoplane Gladiator.  Basic premise is that Glosters saw the writing on the wall as far as biplanes were concerned and went for a monoplane development ofthe Gauntlet (a bit like Hawker and the monoplane Fury concept that preceeded the Hurricane).
Basic kit is an old Airfix Gladiator (parts donor to my Styrene Junkyard Vickers Viagra), plus recycled Defiant wing and prop; canopy from a long lost Defiant whif, with the engine and nacelle coming from a Matchbox F4U and a Heller F4U respectively.  I think the former was a refugee from a Centaurus Corsair whif, while the latter looked too emaciated for the Corsair IV I was making from the Heller kit.  The engine set up isn't anything to do with Corsairs, they're just bits and pieces from the spares box that fit!  Fixed u/c will be the order of the day (strictly NO spats!)
  ;D ;D
What If? & Secret Project SIG member.
On the go: Beaumaris/Battle/Bronco/Barracuda/Corsair GA.1/Flatning/Hellcat IV/Hunter PR11/Hurricane IIb/Ice Cream Tank/JP T4/Jumo MiG-15/P1103 (early)/P1154-ish/Phantom FG1/I-153/Sea Hawk T7/Spitfire XII/Spitfire Tr18/Twin Otter/FrankenCOIN/Frankenfighter

kitbasher

Quote from: The Wooksta! on August 05, 2008, 10:39:50 AM
The wing doesn't look "Gloster" enough.  If you look at the Gloster F5/34 and the Meteor F3 you'll notice the wing is very similar.  I'd advise replacing the wing with Blenheim outer wing panels (someone used them with a Zero fuselage to cobble together a F5/34 in Airfix magazine back in the 70s!)  I'd also go with a Bristol hercules for the engine.

In fact, the early drawings for the F5/34 (or Gloster G38) is a Gladiator fuselage married to a new wing.
The wings will be doctored accordingly to Glosterify them a bit.   Didn't know about the F5/34 history, but you can see a bit of Gladiator in the version that flew (in fact I think in design terms it's the link between the Gladiator and the E28/39) ;D ;D
What If? & Secret Project SIG member.
On the go: Beaumaris/Battle/Bronco/Barracuda/Corsair GA.1/Flatning/Hellcat IV/Hunter PR11/Hurricane IIb/Ice Cream Tank/JP T4/Jumo MiG-15/P1103 (early)/P1154-ish/Phantom FG1/I-153/Sea Hawk T7/Spitfire XII/Spitfire Tr18/Twin Otter/FrankenCOIN/Frankenfighter

kitbasher

Quote from: kitbasher on August 05, 2008, 10:44:44 AM
Didn't know about the F5/34 history
Aha!  Found a three view drawing of the original Gloster F5/34 (the G.38) on page 636 of Shacklady & Morgan's Spitfire book.
Can't see a Hercules engine working, frankly, as the timeline would be wrong (too late for Munich) according to references I've found.  The G38 was, I believe, originally slated to be Perseus-powered, but the final flying version was Mercury IX-powered. ;D ;D
What If? & Secret Project SIG member.
On the go: Beaumaris/Battle/Bronco/Barracuda/Corsair GA.1/Flatning/Hellcat IV/Hunter PR11/Hurricane IIb/Ice Cream Tank/JP T4/Jumo MiG-15/P1103 (early)/P1154-ish/Phantom FG1/I-153/Sea Hawk T7/Spitfire XII/Spitfire Tr18/Twin Otter/FrankenCOIN/Frankenfighter

Brian da Basher

No spats?!!!!!
:o
The horror, the horror....

Brian da Basher

noxioux

Fixed UC and no spats?  Somebody get a rope. . .

I'm almost 98% ignorant of the Gloster F5/34, but this looks like an interesting bash.  I will have to work on lowering that ignorance factor, because that F5/34 is a great looking bird.

sotoolslinger

Looks very interesting I will go look up the concept plane. :thumbsup:
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sotoolslinger

Cool, :mellow: Just went and looked up the F-5/34 . :wub:Are you going to have the cool exhaust pipes sticking out the bottom?
I amuse me.
Huge fan of noisy rodent.
Things learned from this site: don't tease wolverine.
Eddie's personal stalker.
Worshippers in Nannerland

kitbasher

#7
Having followed a few leads courtesy of The Wooksta's earlier comments, found some Gloster G.38 plans and scaled them up accordingly, Blenheim outer wing panels do indeed provide a close match to the Gloster's wings (as indeed do Hurricane wings - was Glosters part of the Hawker Siddelley Group by the late 30s (they certainly built early Hurricanes), and did they employ similar construction and design techniques?).  What struck me most was how much bigger and beefier the G38 is compared to the Gladiator, especially as I was thinking of my whif as more of a Fokker D.XXI competitor (indeed, its been worked into the back story).  Having married up the Airfix Gladiator fuselage to the G.38 plans, the wing's proportions don't quite look right (ie 'too much' wing), so what I will try and do is adapt the Defiant wing to make it look as much like a slightly scaled down version of the G.38 wing (in plan) as possible.
I'm not surprised by the Zero-based effort to produce a G.38 - there's a resemblance if you squint a bit, etc - but the G.38 looks a tad bulkier and then there's the undercarriage...
What is surprising is that if you've got a redundant fuselage from a Novo Supermaine Attacker, cut the nose off at the leading edge of the wing root and place the front end of the cropped fuselage against the very front of the engine covers, there's a very close match to the G.38 fuselage profile in both plan and side views (assuming the plans I found are accurate, of course).  A bullet fairing is needed at the back, but something could be made from a drop tank, I'm sure.  Further trimming at the front end would be needed to take a Mercury, with outer wing sections and (if you're too mean to but an Aeroclub Mercury) an engine from a Blenheim - both best from a Frog/Novo/etc, etc/Revell Blenheim I I would suggest, given the Airfix IV's faults (and if the MPM Blenheim is too expensive for chopping up!).  I feel a longer term project coming on thanks to The Wooksta!

And, yes, my plan is to have 'the cool exhaust pipes sticking out the bottom'.

Oh, and another thing that struck me about the G.38 plans is how much its tailplane looks like that fitted to early Meteors - scale it up and there's pretty much an exact match (more than th wings I would say).  ;D ;D
What If? & Secret Project SIG member.
On the go: Beaumaris/Battle/Bronco/Barracuda/Corsair GA.1/Flatning/Hellcat IV/Hunter PR11/Hurricane IIb/Ice Cream Tank/JP T4/Jumo MiG-15/P1103 (early)/P1154-ish/Phantom FG1/I-153/Sea Hawk T7/Spitfire XII/Spitfire Tr18/Twin Otter/FrankenCOIN/Frankenfighter

kitbasher

Quote from: The Wooksta! on August 07, 2008, 06:05:03 AM
It's easier to buy an F5/34 off the shelf.  Magna do one which is very nice and certainly one of their better kits whilst Dujin also do one.
I'm sure it is!  I knew of the Magna kit (£19 at Hannants - vaguely recall a review in SAM but not what it said) but not of the Dujin kit (£24 at Hannants).  Just fancy the idea of something that would tax (and hopefully improve) my modelling ability (nearly used skills but thought better of it!), and being a tightwad.............
Anyway, if things started to go wrong I could always whif it.   ;D ;D
What If? & Secret Project SIG member.
On the go: Beaumaris/Battle/Bronco/Barracuda/Corsair GA.1/Flatning/Hellcat IV/Hunter PR11/Hurricane IIb/Ice Cream Tank/JP T4/Jumo MiG-15/P1103 (early)/P1154-ish/Phantom FG1/I-153/Sea Hawk T7/Spitfire XII/Spitfire Tr18/Twin Otter/FrankenCOIN/Frankenfighter

kitbasher

#9
OK.  Following The Wooksta's tips and a couple of PMs I've looked closely at the Gloster G.38's wings and tailplane and compared the G.38's dimensions with the Gladiator's.  The latter's fuselage length was around 88% of the G.38's, so 1/72 plans for the latter were shrunk accordingly.  These now form the template against which the old Defiant wings will be reshaped to make them look more like a Gloster product .  Work on this has begun in plan, later on the leading and trailing edges will need sorting out.  Once the wings are fitted (the paint will be stripped off the wings beforehand), the trailing edge will be faired into the fuselage.  Other work so far this week has been to open out the cockpit (I'll use unbuilt Heller Gladiator components as templates for the interior), fit the other half of the cowling to the engine, and create tailplanes from the items made redundant in my Profiles GB P-40ski.  Their basic shape isn't too dissimilar to the G.38's, but a little chopping and reprofiling was necessary.   ;D
What If? & Secret Project SIG member.
On the go: Beaumaris/Battle/Bronco/Barracuda/Corsair GA.1/Flatning/Hellcat IV/Hunter PR11/Hurricane IIb/Ice Cream Tank/JP T4/Jumo MiG-15/P1103 (early)/P1154-ish/Phantom FG1/I-153/Sea Hawk T7/Spitfire XII/Spitfire Tr18/Twin Otter/FrankenCOIN/Frankenfighter

kitbasher

#10
Some progress with the Guardian this week.  A rudimentary cockpit has been put together from plastic card, the Heller Gladiator components acting as templates.

Follwing the addition of a seat, and an instrument panel, two two halves were attached and the filled in gun ports sanded down.  Modified Kittyhawk tailplnes and substitute engine have been attached.

I'll be keeping the Gladiator undercarriage legs and tailwheel, but replacing the main wheels with something a little more convincing.  The canopy has had to be replaced (the kit item was broken in the box, the recyled Defiant whif canopy just wasn't working, either).  A 'new' Airfix Gladiator has given up its canopy, three-bladed prop and tailwheel.
A bit of a surprise in the week - realised that in plan Kittyhawk wings are very close to the scaled down Gloster G.38 shape I've decided to work to, so my 'new' Kittyhawk that's giving up it's nose for my 'Bid for SMW2008 Fame and Fortune' whif has sacrificed its wings to the 'Guardian', and it's goodbye to the Defiant wing mod (thus saving a lot of work).  The gun muzzles have been cut off, the wheel wells blanked off and the leading edge wheel well fairing cut off in preparation for filling, sanding and fitting.  The location tab has bee cut off the upper wing part and the pieces stuck together.  Dry fitting the wings shows that, with the back end of each tab butted against the rear of the slot for the original kit wing puts the new wing in just about the right position, with space for the u/c legs as per the kit instructions.   ;D ;D 
What If? & Secret Project SIG member.
On the go: Beaumaris/Battle/Bronco/Barracuda/Corsair GA.1/Flatning/Hellcat IV/Hunter PR11/Hurricane IIb/Ice Cream Tank/JP T4/Jumo MiG-15/P1103 (early)/P1154-ish/Phantom FG1/I-153/Sea Hawk T7/Spitfire XII/Spitfire Tr18/Twin Otter/FrankenCOIN/Frankenfighter

Brian da Basher

It's great ot see you making progress, kitbasher! I really like your work on the 'pit and using the wings from a P-40 is very inspired!

I'll be keeping an eye out for more on this wonderful project!
:thumbsup:
Brian da Basher

kitbasher

Thnks, Brian.  Any more plaudits and I'll feel compelled to fit spats!
Anyway, further progress.......

;D ;D
What If? & Secret Project SIG member.
On the go: Beaumaris/Battle/Bronco/Barracuda/Corsair GA.1/Flatning/Hellcat IV/Hunter PR11/Hurricane IIb/Ice Cream Tank/JP T4/Jumo MiG-15/P1103 (early)/P1154-ish/Phantom FG1/I-153/Sea Hawk T7/Spitfire XII/Spitfire Tr18/Twin Otter/FrankenCOIN/Frankenfighter

Brian da Basher

Oh yes that looks smashing! The shape is completely convincing! It reminds me a little of a Fiat G-50. Of course, I vote for spats!
:thumbsup:
Brian da Basher

sequoiaranger

I was at RAF Hendon three weeks ago and got a "rush" when I saw the Gloster Gladiator there. The pic is only so-so, but I thought I would include it here.

Notice the prop blades are like the ones on my lawnmower--flat blades with a twist to give it "airfoil".
My mind is like a compost heap: both "fertile" and "rotten"!