A-3 (A3D) Skywarrior and B-66 Destroyer

Started by dy031101, July 25, 2008, 07:16:54 PM

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dy031101

It all began when I flipped through webpages imagining choices of jet aircraft to be put on hybrid ships (Mr. Burke a.k.a. sequoiaranger a.k.a. Admiral U. Furashita did correctly assessed me as crazy) and smaller fleet carriers.

Then a discovery had me re-thinking a significant portion of my imagination: Wikipedia states that S-3 couldn't fly from Midway class carrier.  Further Googling had conflicting claims: some suggesting that Midway and Coral Sea in their final configuration could opearte S-3 while others stating that Midway class can't handle S-3, period.

With this uncertainty I started looking for the next best thing.  A-6 Intruder is one- there are the EA-6B, KA-6D, and a proposed ASW version.

Then came A-3 Skywarrior.  It has many seperate versions to do many tasks.  And with advances in electronics, refinements in aerodynamics, and further development of its engines, perhaps it could be turned into everything a S-3 is but in a package that could takeoff from Midway class and below (British and French carriers)?

So my preliminary imagination is like this:


  • Airframe modifications (if necessary) to make installation of ejector seats for the aircrew possible.
  • Ejector seats and updated avionics for the aircrew.
  • Bomb director system replaced by surveillance radar.
  • FLIR under the fuselage.
  • Wing pylons rated for bombs, missiles, droptanks, and buddy refuelling packs.
  • Rearranged ECM equipment and a MAD boom in the the extreme tail.
  • Sonobuoy launchers under the fuselage and sonobuoy receiver.
  • Of course the bomb bay would be used to carry torpedoes or even more bombs......
  • And perhaps a new pair of engines offering better acceleration and power......

The only problem I can think of is that A-3 is larger than S-3...... smaller fleet carriers might still find the modernised A-3 hard to accommodate (Essex class carriers can take only a reduced detachment)......
To the individual soldiers, *everything* is a frontal assault!

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Current Hobby Priority...... Sigh......

To-do list here

Eddie M.

We did operate the Whale on the Midway until 87. Here are my photos of an A-3D during recovery on the Midway, plus a photo of one on the deck of the Lexington after she became a museum in Corpus Christi, Texas. I don't know if the Whale flew off of the Blue Ghost but this is how it looks on deck.
   Eddie




I took these during a helo tour from the deck of the Lexington in 96.


Look behind you!

dy031101

#2
What is the maximum weight that could be handled by the catapults of Midway and Coral Sea?

And what is the maximum weight that could be handled by the catapults of Oriskany?




I mean, modernised WWII carriers did operate bomber versions of A-3 in Vietnam War, right?
To the individual soldiers, *everything* is a frontal assault!

====================

Current Hobby Priority...... Sigh......

To-do list here

Eddie M.

The Mdway was refit with the Mk-2 nose tow cat during EISRA and could handle anything in the USN inventory
Here's what the refit looked like from my Cruisebook. We had some Tomcats get "lost" once and they recovered and launched from the Midway, even thought we didn't deploy Tomcats.
http://www.midwaysailor.com/midway1980/eisra86.html

The Oriskany deployed the Whale in 62
http://navysite.de/cv/cv34deploy.htm
Look behind you!

Jeffry Fontaine

Since the A-3 was an attack aircraft.  What about modifying the aircraft to incorporate a few cannons in the fuselage?  Mounted in the bomb bay much the same way the RAF did with the Canberra or create a new gun nose for the Skywarrior that would hold four or six 20mm cannon.  Something for the WHIF artists to take under consideration.

Quote from: philp on August 03, 2008, 12:29:28 PMI am still thinking a B-66 would look good in British wrap around camo.  :wub:
Or the wrap around grey/gray scheme as applied to the ANG A-7D late in service. 

Hmmm, B-66 with a gun nose.  Great idea.  Thanks Phil!  Too bad there are no affordable B-66 kits in 1/48th scale. 

Another idea came to mind thanks to a recent suggestion to modify the B-47 Stratojet with the engines from a B-58 Hustler.  Perhaps some brave soul will try this with the B-66 or A-3 airframe to make it look like it has had an engine upgrade.
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GTX

Be interesting to do a RAAF (or other Canberra/B-57 user) A-3/B-66.

regards,

Greg
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

Jeffry Fontaine

Another wild idea for the B-66.  How about a KB-66?  Using the Italeri kit as your starting point you would add a pair of buddy refueling pods to wing pylons outboard of each engine that way you could fuel up two aircraft at a time.  Or alternate plan "B" single hose and drogue system scavenged from the Hasegawa KA-3 Skywarrior and a pair of external fuel tanks mounted on pylons outboard of the wings.  A simple to do WHIF with potential to fool you on the first glance. 
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KJ_Lesnick

Jeffry Fontaine

QuoteAnother wild idea for the B-66.  How about a KB-66?

Considering there were KA-3's this is not an impossible idea -- Unfortunately to my knowledge the Air Force from the late 1960's if not earlier adopted the flying-boom and slip-way system for refuelling USAF planes.  If a flying-boom could be fitted to the underside of the plane, it sounds like it would work.


KJ

That being said, I'd like to remind everybody in a manner reminiscent of the SNL bit on Julian Assange, that no matter how I die: It was murder (even if there was a suicide note or a video of me peacefully dying in my sleep); should I be framed for a criminal offense or disappear, you know to blame.

Jeffry Fontaine

#8
Quote from: KJ_Lesnick on November 22, 2008, 06:39:45 PM
QuoteAnother wild idea for the B-66.  How about a KB-66?

Considering there were KA-3's this is not an impossible idea -- Unfortunately to my knowledge the Air Force from the late 1960's if not earlier adopted the flying-boom and slip-way system for refuelling USAF planes.  If a flying-boom could be fitted to the underside of the plane, it sounds like it would work.

Hi Kendra,

This is thinking outside of the box.  As a WHIF it may not necessarily be sporting the stars and bars of the USAF.  If you have seen MartG's latest project involving the Italeri B-66 in RAF camouflage and markings it would be an ideal companion to his current finished project and was suggested here to promote the idea and maybe see it built. 

During the time that the B-66 was in development and use the USAF employed the flying boom as well as the probe and drogue aerial refueling systems.  Several operational aircraft such as the F-84, F-101, and the F-105 were built with both of these features.  The F-84G had a boom receptacle in the wing root area and the IFR probe was usually attached to one or both of the wing tanks and it was not always carried or fitted.  The F-101 (RF-101) incorporated a retractable IFR probe in the nose of the aircraft in front of the windscreen as well as the flying boom receptacle behind the cockpit along the spine of the aircraft.  All F-105D and F-105F/G aircraft were manufactured with the IFR probe mounted in the nose of the aircraft and the flying boom receptacle located adjacent to it. 
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KJ_Lesnick

Jeffry Fontaine,

For foreign Air Forces, a KB-66 would be an excellent idea for a WHIF.
That being said, I'd like to remind everybody in a manner reminiscent of the SNL bit on Julian Assange, that no matter how I die: It was murder (even if there was a suicide note or a video of me peacefully dying in my sleep); should I be framed for a criminal offense or disappear, you know to blame.

chrisonord

Quote from: Jeffry Fontaine on November 22, 2008, 04:29:03 PM
Another wild idea for the B-66.  How about a KB-66?  Using the Italeri kit as your starting point you would add a pair of buddy refueling pods to wing pylons outboard of each engine that way you could fuel up two aircraft at a time.  Or alternate plan "B" single hose and drogue system scavenged from the Hasegawa KA-3 Skywarrior and a pair of external fuel tanks mounted on pylons outboard of the wings.  A simple to do WHIF with potential to fool you on the first glance. 
I converted a 1/72nd scale B-66 into a KA-3 skywarrior tanker about 14 years ago, I still have most of it in my shed. I did it in the US Navy Strike weapons training school markings, as I have a book on this place and saw a KA-3 on one or two of the pages, I was just getting into the whole US Marines/Navy aircraft thing, and kits were still reasonable to buy then. (Do you remember that??)
I put two re fueling pods off a Victor tanker on the wings and painted them bright orange along with the wing tips,as per the real one.
I have the wings and engines in my model bits stash in the house, if I could find all the bits I might have a go at rebuilding it.
Chris.
The dogs philosophy on life.
If you cant eat it hump it or fight it,
Pee on it and walk away!!

Jeffry Fontaine

#11
Quote from: chrisonord on November 23, 2008, 01:30:25 PM
Quote from: Jeffry Fontaine on November 22, 2008, 04:29:03 PM
Another wild idea for the B-66.  How about a KB-66?  Using the Italeri kit as your starting point you would add a pair of buddy refueling pods to wing pylons outboard of each engine that way you could fuel up two aircraft at a time.  Or alternate plan "B" single hose and drogue system scavenged from the Hasegawa KA-3 Skywarrior and a pair of external fuel tanks mounted on pylons outboard of the wings.  A simple to do WHIF with potential to fool you on the first glance. 
I converted a 1/72nd scale B-66 into a KA-3 skywarrior tanker about 14 years ago, I still have most of it in my shed. I did it in the US Navy Strike weapons training school markings, as I have a book on this place and saw a KA-3 on one or two of the pages, I was just getting into the whole US Marines/Navy aircraft thing, and kits were still reasonable to buy then. (Do you remember that??)
I put two re fueling pods off a Victor tanker on the wings and painted them bright orange along with the wing tips,as per the real one.
I have the wings and engines in my model bits stash in the house, if I could find all the bits I might have a go at rebuilding it.

Hi Chris,

It would be nice to see you build that model again.  I had not considered the Flight Refueling Ltd. IFR pods for the original idea basing it instead on the Douglas D-704 refueling pod due to the fact that Douglas was building both products at the time.  But the FR IFR pods would work just as well if not better since they are of much lighter weight and could be used in addition to carrying a pair of drop tanks under the wings to support the tanker role.  It was after I had seen MartG's B-66 Destroyer in the finished projects forum board that I was seduced into considering a tanker version of the B-66 since it performed a number of other missions in real life but it was never converted to a tanker like the A-3 Skywarrior. 
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Dork the kit slayer

Turning the "Beautifull" Skywarrior into a cannon armed attck ship would I think require a very major remodeling...how about using a "French" Vatour and adjusting that. ................................just musing................should really get back to work. :thumbsup:
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ytown2010

what about the engines? could the KA-3E (my designation for my "Northwest Republic" thread) run GE CF34-10E turbofans in place of the J57s? this would justify me keeping the KA-3 on carrier decks in the 21st Century.

kitbasher

Quote from: ytown2010 on December 24, 2008, 04:35:29 PM
what about the engines? could the KA-3E (my designation for my "Northwest Republic" thread) run GE CF34-10E turbofans in place of the J57s? this would justify me keeping the KA-3 on carrier decks in the 21st Century.
Why not just use tooled up S-3 Vikings?  ;D ;D
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