P-61 Black Widow

[Radish]

These are REAL (apologies all round):
the Turks were supposed to be issued with F-61Bs in the early post-war years, but it proved to be too complicated for them with all that radar.
also, the Saudis were to be issued with them as part of their rebuilding after 1945.

Now then,
a sand-blasted Saudi F-61B....it'll be a real looker!!
Meanwhile, I've started on the F-61K at a model show today (many JMNs were appalled at what I suggested), even more so when I said my next Revell/Monogram P-61 might be a torpedo-strike aircraft in Navy/Marine colours. you could see their faces change colour from pink, through grey/white to puce. Wonderful.
Looks like being areal fun build. Lots of detail and weight in the nose!!
Any other ideas guys and galls??
         

[retro_seventies]

Nice idea Ves...

*sighs happily*

don't you just LOVE COIN planes?

You think that they could have been used alongside the a-26's by the US when they got involved in the Belgian Congo in the early 60's?  No turret, plenty of guns in the nose and wings, napalm, rockets and lumps and bumps all over the place....

lovely...

Good luck Radish!!  

Ben  

[Captain Canada]

you could see their faces change colour from pink, through grey/white to puce.

Isn't puce 'flea' en Francais ?   Go figure !

And, uh, Radish........how about a CDN example, all done up with the white top, and silver undersides with the fuselage length lightning stripe ? Would make an ideal post war gunnery and radar trainer......in place of the B-25K !

Or how about a double jet ?

Cheers !

Toadman

[Radish]

Like the turbo idea. I've "plans" ,haven't we all, to build an AU-1 Corsair with a lengthened turbo on the front, and as the engines the same in the F-61, why not do two extra engines for a turbo-widow??
Super.
The Monogram kits superb, and has LOTS of potential for daft things.
Onwards, children!!
     

[Tophe]

I confirm, French-speaking people call a flea "une puce". If you don't know foreign languages, just try http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/tr (free and useful), I translate German this way, as far as I am concerned.
About the twin-jet P-61, how would you imagine her ? Jets below the booms below the wing, or long jet-booms with air-intakes in front of the wing and jet-pipes after the tail (Borovkov-Florov or SNCAC like) ? Say you imagine that has been done in 1945, and I will draw her... someday.
Thanks for your dreams    

[Radish]

How the Commie Chinese got a P-61 is a bit of a mystery as only the US used it, except for test examples in the UK. The Chinese one must have been a USAAF one left in an unservicable state in China when the Yanks withdrew.
For those into COIN, how about:
1. French in Algeria, black with white fuselage top
2. Full camo job in SEAsia US type....Brazil, El Salvador, Chile, Thailand
3. Desert camo on a Peruvian example, or Iraqi one or Somali?
4. How about Blue/Grey over grey with USN pre-war stars with the red dot?
5. Israeli either all gloss black or in the tan/blue combination, with black undersurfaces.
As the Black Widow was renowned for getting dirty with lots of peeling paint, it's a definite for very heavy weathering.
Oh God, I just think I've another series to build!!
         

[Radish]

Well, it's all cut out, edges/flash sanded and prepared, cockpit interior assembled, and ready to paint the interiors tomorrow. After that, an hour and a half's job, it's glue time with all major components assembled. There's some nive open doors exposing the gun bays, etc., that'll look effective, as will the exposed radial.
Oh, I'm really enjoying this.
Wednesday should see the major components cleaned up and major airframe assembly. I reckon I can be painting, with luck, by Saturday!!
 
Other options:
How about a scenario where the Baltic countries...Estonia, Lithuania and Latvia remained free of the soviets in 1945, and joined Finland in a Neutral Alliance??
Perhaps some Black widows to help patrol the borders?? Especially Finland.
Buggar the Treaties that existed.....we can re-write those.
 
Quite fancy a US Marines one, or how about the RNZAF?? In that triple blue/white camo used by the Yanks in the mid-war years??
How many do you reckon I can do??
I've one started, 3 in store, and a model show to go to on Sunday! Got to lay in another, do you reckon??
     

[Captain Canada]

Radman.....are these the 48th scale Monogram kits ?

And do the CDN one !  Do it  

But a three blue USN/M job would look awful nice !

Cheers !

Toadman

[Jeffry Fontaine]

The idea of a COIN aircraft based on the P-61 (F-61) airframe is enticing especially after removing the top four gun turret.  I personally like the idea of extending the nose to accommodate a battery of .50" machine guns.  Perhaps use the eight gun nose of the A-26 Invader as an example.  Add a couple more stores pylons one each wing in addition to the four that are already provided.  The additional .50" machine guns and the four 20 mm cannon all forward firing would be devastating to any target and it would also fit in with a USAF '46, Korean war, or a counter-insurgency (COIN) aircraft.   

How about replacing the R-2800 radials with a couple of V-12 engines from Allison or Rolls Royce?  It would certainly give the P-61 a different look.  The engine parts from the ModelCraft F-82 might work and they already have the "handed" propellers.

Has anyone attempted to build the P-61 in Commonwealth Air Force markings for a night fighter squadron?  Nothing fancy, just the standard late war camouflage scheme as used on the Mosquito NF is what I would imagine being used for this version.

[Radish]

The options for the F-61 nose are extensive:
 first, leave it alone
 second, extend the nose behind the current radome and drill out an appropriate number of holes for four machine guns, or how about 2 more cannon?
You'll need to extend the nose so there's room for the guns.
 third, extend the nose as before but have one big gun....75mm? 105mm?
The 4 x underwing pylons can have bombs, napalm on, but add extra outboard pylons for some extra rocket pods ('60s era plus) or 0.5inch rocket stubs which some had. Then again, I suppose I could fit the pylon from a P-38 for rocket stowage??
The wingtip tanks will be from a '60s era aircraft only. Anything prior to this will not have them fitted. But remember, the entire aft fuselage is faired over to contain fuel, and the top turret position can also contain fuel in an overload tanklike early ones had.
A seriously heavy machine, with wall-to-wall death.
Great!!!
         

[nev]

How about putting a large caliber cannon in the nose, a la tsetse mosquito?

[Captain Canada]

It would probably have to be more of a downward firing type gunship....with those big booms in the way !

But that woulf be cool.......I think this place is developing 'widow fever' !

Doesn't somebody make a 72nd scale bird ? Is it Italeri ?

Cheers !

[Radish]

Yeah, mine's the 1/48th Monogram kit re-released by Revell. Old, but a goody.
The Dragon 1/72nd kit has major fit problems but's good when finally built. I prefer the bigger one, though.
It's a cracker!
Surprisingly, there's very few actually built up, too. Perhaps people are put off by all the glazing?
It's a cool looking aircraft to me, and when you read about the pilots that flew them.......wow!!!
     

[Tophe]

Airfix P-61 was the very reason for my love toward twin-boomers...
About long bubble canopy : the XP-61E had one, as well as the F-15 Reporter version that was mass produced as Fotographic reco P-61.
This is all I can say, about military use and nationalities, I am not expert at all.

[Radish]

Hey, we're all experts on WhatIf? Planet!!!
The Airfix kit, of course, has been around a while, but I agree with Alvis, it's a good build, and you might as well spend time improving that as filling all the gaps on the Dragon kit.
For me, though, the Monogram/Revell kit is tops.
   
Wasn't there a C-119 Packet with a jet engine on top, Canadian, test machine?
How about a couple of jet engines on pods out of the top of the fuselage?
   
I haven't completly decided on the final upper surfacecolours yet, but sand, dark green and green seem possible. Black undersurfaces, lots of nose-art, the odd stipe and number, all very heavily weathered and on a diorama base. The idea is to put it in the Nationals, probably in the Science Fiction category, as an Imperial Canadian F-61K on duty.....haven't decided where yet.
Really "going" for the Inperial Canadian thing....the CF-91R "Gerbil" ( a modified Fiat on the way) will be Imperial Canadian too.
He-he-he-he.