Pershing and Patton Family of MBT (M26, M46, M47, M48, M60, and M103)

[dy031101]

For example, those used by the M47 and M48...... are they interchangeable beyond some minor differences (like the M47's track tension wheels)?

[dy031101]

Say, I want to place ERA blocks onto the hull glacis of a M47.  The M47 has a ball mount there for a machinegun, which in time got faired over as its utility was deemed dubious.  Nevertheless, the fairing, if left in place, would understandably complicate ERA coverage there.

So what can I do?  Would I have been able to replace the glacis reasonably easily with one that is completely flat?  Or do I just leave the area uncovered?

Thanks in advance.

[Logan Hartke]

For example, those used by the M47 and M48...... are they interchangeable beyond some minor differences (like the M47's track tension wheels)?

My guess, they're probably not the same.  Probably very similar, but I'd be surprised if they were interchangeable.  The roadwheels and tracks MAY be interchangeable, but I doubt little else would be.  Look up Hunnicutt's Patton book, that would likely give you have the dimensions that would tell you with more certainty.

Say, I want to place ERA blocks onto the hull glacis of a M47.  The M47 has a ball mount there for a machinegun, which in time got faired over as its utility was deemed dubious.  Nevertheless, the fairing, if left in place, would understandably complicate ERA coverage there.

So what can I do?  Would I have been able to replace the glacis reasonably easily with one that is completely flat?  Or do I just leave the area uncovered?

No way to easily "fix" the glacis.  The bump is there--it's not going away.  You have 2 options.  Slap ERA on it anyway.  Nothing preventing you from doing that.  Seen an M48 or M60's Blazer turret ERA package?  Not exactly...sleek.

You're not the first to ponder this, however.



http://www.rc-panzerketten-forum.com/wbb2/thread.php?goto=nextnewest&threadid=23104

This German RC tank builder did an M26 with Magach-style upgrade.  He left the .30 cal in the ball mount, so left it uncovered.  I'd just plate the MG over then slap some ERA on it.

Cheers,

Logan

[ChernayaAkula]

And for a tailor-made fit, consider Voyager Models separate (!!!), photo-etched ERA blocks!  CLICKY!



Fold 'em yourself! There's only 210 of those blocks.  I'm fairly sure that some most PE designers have a sadistic streak, but this is taking the mickey!

[dy031101]

And for a tailor-made fit, consider Voyager Models separate (!!!), photo-etched ERA blocks!   CLICKY!

Fold 'em yourself! There's only 210 of those blocks.   I'm fairly sure that some most PE designers have a sadistic streak, but this is taking the mickey!

And I can imagine applying filler/putty to be one time-consuming exercise......  

[rickshaw]

And for a tailor-made fit, consider Voyager Models separate (!!!), photo-etched ERA blocks!   CLICKY!

Fold 'em yourself! There's only 210 of those blocks.   I'm fairly sure that some most PE designers have a sadistic streak, but this is taking the mickey!

And I can imagine applying filler/putty to be one time-consuming exercise......  

Not really.  I'd just push the filler into each block until it oozes out the holes and then trim.   However I'm surprised they haven't been made also in blocks of say five to make it easier. 

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Here is a link to some images of 1/35th scale model of an M48 with the turret from a Leopard 2 built by Diethelm Berlage using the Academy M48 hull with an Italeri Leopard 2 turret.  Images are located in the gallery at Track-Link

[dy031101]

http://www.rc-panzerketten-forum.com/wbb2/thread.php?goto=nextnewest&threadid=23104

This German RC tank builder did an M26 with Magach-style upgrade.  He left the .30 cal in the ball mount, so left it uncovered.  I'd just plate the MG over then slap some ERA on it.

Kind of a nitpick I know, but given its same turret ring size as the Sherman, I wonder if the M26-based Magach would be stuck with a lower-pressure 105mm as used on the Sherman M51 as well......

(That being said, IIRC, the earliest M47 tanks were converted from M46 hulls, so there was a potential for an enlarged turret ring and consequently a new and larger turret.)

[dy031101]

rickshaw expressed that he considers the M47 turret as having a superior ballistic shape than that of that M48 during an earlier exchange in the Steam Tank thread.

Come to think of it, the M47 turret did bear some resemblance to those of the M60A1 onward......

What is behind the evolution with respect to turrets in the Patton tank family?

[ysi_maniac]

Inspired by T42 medium tank: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T42_medium_tank

Short Pattons

[rickshaw]

rickshaw expressed that he considers the M47 turret as having a superior ballistic shape than that of that M48 during an earlier exchange in the Steam Tank thread.

Come to think of it, the M47 turret did bear some resemblance to those of the M60A1 onward......

What is behind the evolution with respect to turrets in the Patton tank family?

M26 - M46 - M47 - M48 - M60 - M60a1 - M60a2 - M60a3  Is the logical order.  However there are a few aberrations.  In reality, the order was - M26 - M47 - M48 - M60 - M60a2 - M60a1 - M60a3.   The M46 was basically a re-engined M26.   The M47 was meant to go onto the M46 hull but because of the Korean War, never did, going instead on to an M46 hull with an M48 engine.   The M60 mounted an M48 turret on a slightly new hull with it's chief recognition the flat instead of curved Glacis plate and a new engine.  The M60a2 appeared before the M60a1 and was superseded by the M60a3.

[ysi_maniac]

... The M47 was meant to go onto the M46 hull ...

I think that M47 turret was installed onto M42 hull before than onto M46 hull. Am I wrong?

[Logan Hartke]

You're correct, ysi. Actually, the T42 with its new turret and new hull were meant to replace the M46 (as Rickshaw said, basically a re-engined M26), but problems with the T42 meant that they took the new turret, slapped it on the M46 hull, and *voila*, got the M47.

Cheers,

Logan

[zenrat]

Inspired by T42 medium tank: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T42_medium_tank

Short Pattons

Woah! that was visible yesterday.

Hang on...

Inspired by T42 medium tank: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T42_medium_tank

Short Pattons

[Logan Hartke]

I was reading recently about difficulties with Chieftain reliability and then separately was reminded of the FV4201/T95 studies, and I realized that if the T95/FV4201 combination was technically possible, then so too would a Chieftain turret on an M60 hull. I realized that I hadn't actually seen one of those mocked up before, so I decided to take some of the profiles from Tank Encyclopedia and try my hand at it. I did my best to scale these accurately, so I hope you all find them interesting, at least.



M60 Chieftain early production



M60 Chieftain circa 1970s NATO



M60 Chieftain circa 1980s NATO



M60 Chieftain export

Anyway, I hope these prove interesting to some as a quick evening mockup.

Cheers,

Logan