What if

GROUP BUILDS => The 2017 One Week Build => Topic started by: sandiego89 on May 27, 2017, 03:10:50 pm

Title: Liberty ship- Convair POGO training platform- Finished
Post by: sandiego89 on May 27, 2017, 03:10:50 pm
Even with the revised flight controls, the unique landing configuration of the production version of the POGO proved challenging. A cheap and reliable training ship was desired before sending pilots to the fleet.  A Liberty ship was pulled from the ghost fleet in Orange, Texas and was sent to the yards for the fitting of an aft flight deck.   

The kit- 1/700 Skywave/Pit Road USS Bootes.

POGO's will be from ancient Skyrays (1/800?) and lots of scratch.

(http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa360/sandiego89/DSCF1580_zps4tzw1jcx.jpg)

(http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa360/sandiego89/DSCF1583_zpsnet4b2eo.jpg)



Title: Re: Liberty ship- Convair POGO training platform
Post by: PR19_Kit on May 27, 2017, 04:14:10 pm
I LOVE that idea.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Liberty ship- Convair POGO training platform
Post by: kitnut617 on May 27, 2017, 04:20:55 pm
My Dad during WWII made a Liberty ship from plans which required use of soldered cut-up tin cans for it's fabrication and had a white spirit fueled boiler. It floated quite well. My Bro' has it now so I should go down to his place and see what scale it was. IIRC, my Dad said it was 1/72
Title: Re: Liberty ship- Convair POGO training platform
Post by: Rick Lowe on May 27, 2017, 09:09:17 pm
My Dad during WWII made a Liberty ship from plans which required use of soldered cut-up tin cans for it's fabrication and had a white spirit fueled boiler. It floated quite well. My Bro' has it now so I should go down to his place and see what scale it was. IIRC, my Dad said it was 1/72

Old-School Scratchbuilding at it's finest! And a working model, to boot - c'mon, we've got to see pics of this!  <_<
Title: Re: Liberty ship- Convair POGO training platform
Post by: PR19_Kit on May 27, 2017, 11:42:17 pm
My Dad during WWII made a Liberty ship from plans which required use of soldered cut-up tin cans for it's fabrication and had a white spirit fueled boiler. It floated quite well. My Bro' has it now so I should go down to his place and see what scale it was. IIRC, my Dad said it was 1/72

Old-School Scratchbuilding at it's finest! And a working model, to boot - c'mon, we've got to see pics of this!  <_<

And it's got to be BIG too, over 6 ft long at 1/72 scale.  :o
Title: Re: Liberty ship- Convair POGO training platform
Post by: Rick Lowe on May 28, 2017, 12:21:43 am
Interesting to recall the 1/1 ships were welded together also...
I remember the story of an Uncle who was on Convoy protection duty telling his family (my Mum and her siblings) that apparently they 'split like tomatoes when torpedoed'...  :o

And the LCSs these days are welded too... and the welds are already under stress, from the 'slices' the ships are made in being forced into alignment... hmm.  :o  :o
Title: Re: Liberty ship- Convair POGO training platform
Post by: Hobbes on May 28, 2017, 01:48:43 am
Liberty ships were hastily slapped together, built for a life span of a few years at most. They were also among the first ships that were welded instead of riveted, so there's bound to have been a learning curve.

Modern welding techniques are better, and welds can be inspected internally using X-rays. As a result, welded ships are considered to be stronger than riveted ones. (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=424429)
Title: Re: Liberty ship- Convair POGO training platform
Post by: Dizzyfugu on May 28, 2017, 02:45:16 am
Very cool idea, I like the concept.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Liberty ship- Convair POGO training platform
Post by: zenrat on May 28, 2017, 03:06:03 am
To me this seems ambitions for a week.  Go for it!
 :thumbsup:

Do you have a ghost fleet in your stash?
Title: Re: Liberty ship- Convair POGO training platform
Post by: kitnut617 on May 28, 2017, 06:09:51 am
My Dad during WWII made a Liberty ship from plans which required use of soldered cut-up tin cans for it's fabrication and had a white spirit fueled boiler. It floated quite well. My Bro' has it now so I should go down to his place and see what scale it was. IIRC, my Dad said it was 1/72

Old-School Scratchbuilding at it's finest! And a working model, to boot - c'mon, we've got to see pics of this!  <_<

OK I'll try to get down to my bro's sometime and get some photos taken of it.

And it's got to be BIG too, over 6 ft long at 1/72 scale.  :o

Hmm! you got me thinking now Kit, might not be 1/72 scale but it is nearly 3ft long
Title: Re: Liberty ship- Convair POGO training platform
Post by: Weaver on May 28, 2017, 07:35:01 am
Nice to see this: everyone concentrates on the tail-sitter fighters but I've never seen much about the ships they were intended to operate from. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Liberty ship- Convair POGO training platform
Post by: Captain Canada on May 28, 2017, 08:25:37 am
Sounds like a great idea. But then again, all of your naval projects do !
Title: Re: Liberty ship- Convair POGO training platform
Post by: PR19_Kit on May 28, 2017, 08:32:28 am

Nice to see this: everyone concentrates on the tail-sitter fighters but I've never seen much about the ships they were intended to operate from. :thumbsup:


I'm not sure that the US Navy thought too much about the ships either!  ;D ;)
Title: Re: Liberty ship- Convair POGO training platform
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on May 28, 2017, 08:58:35 am
Interesting project, you might want to consider a forward mounted platform as well, as in most cases, it would be free
from eddies caused by the superstructure and the warm air exhausting from the stack, both of which could impact the
Pogo's handling while in vertical mode. Perhaps the fwd deck for general landing practice on a stationary ship, the aft
deck for underway landing training.

The Liberty structural problems were from embrittlement of the steel used and design errors rather than welding per se.
The notion that 'weld seams' split is erroneous, the failure was to the steel next to the welds, and the cracks would
propagate across the surface for long distances.
BTW only three are definitively known to have sunk because of cracks, out of 1200 that displayed cracking to various
degrees.

Title: Re: Liberty ship- Convair POGO training platform
Post by: kitnut617 on May 28, 2017, 11:18:38 am
I've got a story for you then Jon.
When I first came to Canada I worked at Dominiom Bridge, one of the first friends I made was an old welder. Amongst all the stories he would tell was one when he worked at a shipyard during the war where he weled up Liberty ship sections. These sections where made up all over the country and then shipped to the assembly yard on the coast.  He told me they were on 'piece' work and got paid by the feet of weld they laid down each day. To bump up his footage he said they would put all sorts of scrap into the joint and then cap it off with a weld.  I'm not surprised at all about the stories I've heard since I got told that.
Title: Re: Liberty ship- Convair POGO training platform
Post by: sandiego89 on May 29, 2017, 08:07:19 am
Thanks all.  Yes Jon I had already planned on a forward platform, but I kept it small as I wanted to keep the lines of the Liberty ship, and as a minimal conversion as a training ship.   

Aft landing deck installed and forward landing pad. A SeaDart has snuck in. Scratched up a "Teepee" servicing shelter as was developed for the POGO.

HUS (C-34/S-58) as a SAR bird, but think I might scratch up a HUP instead. 

(http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa360/sandiego89/DSCF1588_zps8zundpj4.jpg)

Title: Re: Liberty ship- Convair POGO training platform
Post by: proditor on May 29, 2017, 12:40:49 pm
Nice work!

That's a great little kit.
Title: Re: Liberty ship- Convair POGO training platform
Post by: sandiego89 on May 29, 2017, 12:48:57 pm

That's a great little kit.

It really is nicely molded with great detail.  Been in the stash "ghost fleet" for ~2 decades.  Love the older PitRoad/Skywave stuff. 
Title: Re: Liberty ship- Convair POGO training platform
Post by: Captain Canada on May 29, 2017, 02:07:54 pm
Nice. A HUP would really fit in nicely !
Title: Re: Liberty ship- Convair POGO training platform
Post by: sandiego89 on May 29, 2017, 05:17:40 pm
POGO's lined up.  The Skyray was a pretty close shape, but lots of extra work, including new tails and generic 3 bladed White Ensign photo etch props (2 props per POGO)

Hope to get to the HUP tonight.  Heading out of town Wednesday, so full speed ahead! (which for a Liberty ship was ~11 knots!)   

(http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa360/sandiego89/DSCF1590_zpscthp0rsy.jpg)

(http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa360/sandiego89/DSCF1589_zps11ibdrll.jpg)

Title: Re: Liberty ship- Convair POGO training platform
Post by: Weaver on May 29, 2017, 06:47:47 pm
Looking good - those little Pogos are the business!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Liberty ship- Convair POGO training platform
Post by: zenrat on May 29, 2017, 07:48:48 pm
Do any modelling yesterday Dave?
Yeah, I built six aircraft... ;D

Title: Re: Liberty ship- Convair POGO training platform
Post by: Rick Lowe on May 30, 2017, 01:48:44 am
Coming along nicely there.
Yeah, I wish I could build that quickly in 1/72... well I could, but they'd look like cr@ - err, rubbish.
Unlike the Pogos, they're looking good.

And interesting stories/info on welds & whatnot.
I wondered where/how the term 'piece time rates' came from... I thought it was a mis-spelling.
Title: Re: Liberty ship- Convair POGO training platform
Post by: kitnut617 on May 30, 2017, 02:42:26 am
And interesting stories/info on welds & whatnot.
I wondered where/how the term 'piece time rates' came from... I thought it was a mis-spelling.

I've done a few jobs that were piece work. A company I worked for did it quite often when they had a few thousand widgets to make. Basically they would come up to you with an item (or piece) and say 'how much to make one of these' and usually you'd get told there's a thousand to make. You'd work it out how long it would take to mark it out, drill it (it needed), bend it (if needed) etc then times/divide it by your hourly rate (or whatever you wanted to charge).  But in your mind you're thinking how you could maybe mark out one, but then stack say ten of them in a pile for drilling. Or how quick you could make a jig to maybe you didn't have to mark one out (or any of them for that matter) Then you could divide your price for one item by as many as you think you could do at one time. So you'd give your price for the one item and sometimes you won the job or you didn't.  So the term 'piece work' comes from that  --- basically
Title: Re: Liberty ship- Convair POGO training platform
Post by: Captain Canada on May 30, 2017, 08:36:32 am
Are you kidding me ? Those look awesome !

 :bow:
Title: Re: Liberty ship- Convair POGO training platform- Finished
Post by: sandiego89 on June 04, 2017, 12:04:35 pm
Finished-  POGO training ship.   

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/924/d4RVt3.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/922/3gfcU6.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/923/nfvYZv.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/924/exeAm9.jpg)


Tired old 1/72 POGO for reference
Title: Re: Liberty ship- Convair POGO training platform- Finished
Post by: proditor on June 04, 2017, 01:58:20 pm
Excellent stuff! I would have totally wimped out and ordered the Pogos from Shareways.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Liberty ship- Convair POGO training platform- Finished
Post by: Thorvic on June 05, 2017, 02:03:35 am
Excellent stuff  :thumbsup:, you should have a go at a Tamiya Brogue Escort Carrier or an Independence class CVL as modified ships to carry the operational Pogo as then you can go to town with the facilities and updates to the ship and would look good next to the training ship   ;)
Title: Re: Liberty ship- Convair POGO training platform- Finished
Post by: zenrat on June 05, 2017, 03:23:48 am
And you should build a 1/72 version to carry the big Pogo... ;D
Title: Re: Liberty ship- Convair POGO training platform- Finished
Post by: NARSES2 on June 05, 2017, 08:11:18 am
 :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Liberty ship- Convair POGO training platform- Finished
Post by: sandiego89 on June 05, 2017, 02:28:20 pm
you should have a go at a Tamiya Brogue Escort Carrier or an Independence class CVL as modified ships to carry the operational Pogo as then you can go to town with the facilities and updates to the ship and would look good next to the training ship   ;)

I do have a BOGUE in the stash, and I also understand there were plans for an escort carrier to also be modified as a ship for the SeaDart- one of my favorite doomed to fail designs! 
Title: Re: Liberty ship- Convair POGO training platform- Finished
Post by: Captain Canada on June 07, 2017, 05:48:24 am
Love it. Imagine the sound of this group in action ? Very imaginative  :wub:
Title: Re: Liberty ship- Convair POGO training platform- Finished
Post by: tigercat on June 16, 2017, 11:41:37 am
How did you make the POGO stick?

Sorry couldn't resist.
Title: Re: Liberty ship- Convair POGO training platform- Finished
Post by: sandiego89 on June 16, 2017, 12:56:00 pm
How did you make the POGO stick?

Sorry couldn't resist.

Haha!

Yes Captain, the sound would have been impressive....