Author Topic: Westland Whirlwind  (Read 33494 times)

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Offline The Wooksta!

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Re: Westland Whirlwind
« Reply #180 on: August 08, 2018, 01:53:08 am »
I may give it a bash as I've some two stage Merlins that are wrong for Mosquitos but may well look okay on something else...

I still like the radials idea, but I don't have many Aeroclub Taurus cowlings and probably not enough to do this.
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Offline NARSES2

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Re: Westland Whirlwind
« Reply #181 on: August 08, 2018, 06:18:22 am »
I've been perusing Secret Projects and it's been discovered recently that there really were plans to re-engine the Whirlwind with Merlins.  I'ts always been accepted (me included) that the Whirlwind was too tightly designed around the Peregrine, but it seems that it was simple logistics that prevented a Merlin powered version being built. 


That's interesting Mossie. I've always read the same thing plus Petter's intransigence. "Not over my dead body" sort of thing.

I've found I have two ex Frog Hornet wings in the large parts box, so I'm tempted to do a late Whirlwind PR in low level pink with my third Airfix kit.

However first I need to look for some Taurus engines and cowlings.
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Offline Mossie

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Re: Westland Whirlwind
« Reply #182 on: August 08, 2018, 10:31:43 am »
Chris, I've got a pair of Twin Wasps from a denfunct Dakota if you want them, either for a later model or as stand instead for the Taurus, no one will know if you don't tell 'em. :thumbsup:
I don't think it's nice, you laughin'. You see, my mule don't like people laughin'. He gets the crazy idea you're laughin' at him. Now if you apologize, like I know you're going to, I might convince him that you really didn't mean it.

Offline PR19_Kit

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Re: Westland Whirlwind
« Reply #183 on: August 08, 2018, 10:43:51 am »

...... or as stand instead for the Taurus, no one will know if you don't tell 'em. :thumbsup:


As if we would............  ;) ;)
Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

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Kit

Offline NARSES2

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Re: Westland Whirlwind
« Reply #184 on: August 09, 2018, 06:30:26 am »
Chris, I've got a pair of Twin Wasps from a denfunct Dakota if you want them, either for a later model or as stand instead for the Taurus, no one will know if you don't tell 'em. :thumbsup:

Thanks mate, but I've just had a rummage in the box of spare engine/cowling bits and I've got some twin row radials in there. They are obviously a pair, even I can work that out, so most likely Wasps given my build history. So may well go for a latter version unless I hide them under a cowling and use the early war high demarcation camouflage  ;)

Thanks Mossie  :thumbsup:
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Offline joncarrfarrelly

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Re: Westland Whirlwind
« Reply #185 on: August 09, 2018, 10:49:14 am »
The slimmer cowlings of the Hornet Merlin 130/131 installation
would look plausible, the two aircraft had the same wingspan, the
Whirlwind being 3 3 shorter in length.
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Offline The Wooksta!

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Re: Westland Whirlwind
« Reply #186 on: August 09, 2018, 03:05:28 pm »
Aye, but that's if they're decent representations.  The Frog ones aren't.
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Offline Mossie

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Re: Westland Whirlwind
« Reply #187 on: August 10, 2018, 03:16:27 am »
OT, have you ever put a Merlin 130 on Spitfire Lee?
I don't think it's nice, you laughin'. You see, my mule don't like people laughin'. He gets the crazy idea you're laughin' at him. Now if you apologize, like I know you're going to, I might convince him that you really didn't mean it.

Offline The Wooksta!

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Re: Westland Whirlwind
« Reply #188 on: August 10, 2018, 03:52:59 am »
I don't think the cowling would look much different.  Besides which, RR got the engine so slim by removing all the ancilliaries and placing them elsewhere.  DH got away with that in the Hornet as they were designed around those engines and the ancilliaries could go in the wings.  I've a feeling you'd need considerable redesign to get them elsewhere in a Spitfire.
"It's basically a cure... for not being an axe-wielding homicidal maniac... the potential market's enormous!"

"Now then, Butch Harry. Tell us about Fulham."

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Offline NARSES2

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Re: Westland Whirlwind
« Reply #189 on: August 10, 2018, 06:35:04 am »
The slimmer cowlings of the Hornet Merlin 130/131 installation
would look plausible, the two aircraft had the same wingspan, the
Whirlwind being 3 3 shorter in length.

Yup I actually tried the Hornet wings against the Whirlwind and was surprised at that. And no I'm not doing it they look a tad odd.

Aye, but that's if they're decent representations.  The Frog ones aren't.

Very much so Lee, which is why perhaps I could just say that they are "Merlins" and not be that specific ?
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Offline joncarrfarrelly

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Re: Westland Whirlwind
« Reply #190 on: August 10, 2018, 08:49:23 am »
Why not, as its doubtful that a Westland designed cowling assembly would
look exactly like one designed at De Havilland.  :thumbsup:
"Evil our grandsires were, our fathers worse;
And we, till now unmatched in ill,
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Offline Weaver

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Re: Westland Whirlwind
« Reply #191 on: October 08, 2018, 07:19:48 pm »
According to BSP, Roy Fedden at Bristol was pushing for a radial-engined Whirlwind, but it doesn't say which engine.

If all you wanted was a supportable replacement for the Peregrine, rather than a radical increase in power, then you could fit Bristol Perseus engines. These put out 930hp compared to the Peregrine's 885hp and were 115lb lighter as well. You'd have lost a bit of speed to the increased drag, but another 230lb of armour/fuel/warload would have been useful, as would the increased damage tolerance of an air-cooled radial in the ground-attack role, which is where the Whirlwind ended up.
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Re: Westland Whirlwind
« Reply #192 on: October 08, 2018, 10:46:55 pm »
I put Hercules on my Wirly-Wirly TF.III build.  Appreciably heavier but a great deal more powerful.

Quote
Specifications (Peregrine I)

Data from Lumsden [9]
General characteristics

    Type: 12-cylinder supercharged liquid-cooled 60-degree Vee aircraft piston engine
    Bore: 5 inches (127 mm)
    Stroke: 5.5 inches (140 mm)
    Displacement: 1,296 in3 (21.2 L)
    Length: 73.6 in (1,869 mm)
    Width: 27.1 in (688 mm)
    Height: 41.0 in (1,041 mm)
    Dry weight: 1,140 lb (517 kg)
[...]
Performance

    Power output: 885 hp (660 kW) at 3,000 rpm, +9 psi boost
    Specific power: 0.68 hp/in3 (31.1 kW/L)
    Compression ratio: 6:1
    Power-to-weight ratio: 0.77 lb/hp
[Source]

Quote
Specifications (Hercules II)

Data from Lumsden[5]
General characteristics

    Type: 14-cylinder, two-row, supercharged, air-cooled radial engine
    Bore: 5.75 in (146 mm)
    Stroke: 6.5 in (165 mm)
    Displacement: 2,360 in (38.7 L)
    Length: 53.15 in (1,350 mm)
    Diameter: 55 in (1,397 mm)
    Dry weight: 1,929 lb (875 kg)
[...]
Performance

    Power output:
    1,272 hp (949 kW) at 2,800 rpm for takeoff
    1,356 hp (1,012 kW) at 2,750 rpm at 4,000 ft (1,220 m)
    Specific power: 0.57 hp/in (26.15 kW/l)
    Compression ratio: 7.0:1
    Specific fuel consumption: 0.43 lb/(hph) (261 g/(kWh))
    Power-to-weight ratio: 0.7 hp/lb (1.16 kW/kg)
[Source]




« Last Edit: October 08, 2018, 10:49:15 pm by rickshaw »
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Offline joncarrfarrelly

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Re: Westland Whirlwind
« Reply #193 on: October 10, 2018, 09:44:35 am »
According to BSP, Roy Fedden at Bristol was pushing for a radial-engined Whirlwind, but it doesn't say which engine.

If all you wanted was a supportable replacement for the Peregrine, rather than a radical increase in power, then you could fit Bristol Perseus engines. These put out 930hp compared to the Peregrine's 885hp and were 115lb lighter as well. You'd have lost a bit of speed to the increased drag, but another 230lb of armour/fuel/warload would have been useful, as would the increased damage tolerance of an air-cooled radial in the ground-attack role, which is where the Whirlwind ended up.

The Gloster F.9/37 prototype L7779 was fitted with 1,050 hp Taurus T-S(a) engines and had a top
speed of 360mph, L8002 had 885hp Pergrines and was 30mph slower.
So chances are that a similar installation on the Whirlwind would have had a positive effect.

Recently I saw parts of a paper by Fedden that included comparison drawings of a Bristol radial
installation, I forget which engine, and a Napier Dagger installation, the radial had a lower
surface area and lower drag. Ill try to remember where I saw it.
"Evil our grandsires were, our fathers worse;
And we, till now unmatched in ill,
Must leave successors more corrupted still."
Horace, 65BC - 8BC. Marsh translation.

Offline Martin H

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Re: Westland Whirlwind
« Reply #194 on: October 10, 2018, 02:16:27 pm »
As many of the "old hands" on here are well aware, I have a "thing" for the Whirlwind..................even more so when whiffing is involved.

In mark order.
Finnish export Mk I


The NF mk I


The Mk II (spot the other westland whiff in the back ground)


The PR II


The Sea Whirlwind TF III (the one that started this Whirlwind obsession)


The Sea Whirlwind NF IV


And the twin boomer for a long past Tophe GB..........


As you may be able to tell these are all fairly low rez pics. Giving an idea how long ago these builds were made.
These were posted on this thread about 8 years ago, but the links are long dead, since I told Photobucket to go forth and........................

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