Author Topic: Lancer's luverly idea  (Read 5436 times)

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Offline The Rat

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Lancer's luverly idea
« on: May 28, 2005, 07:02:21 am »
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Here's an idea, with all those Lancasters surplus after the war, how about converting some of them to fire bombers?? with the load those beauties could take they'd make a pretty effective fire bomber.

I've moved this to another thread because I was in danger of hijacking the other one. I'm really starting to like this idea, can't get it out of my mind.

Now, we know the Lanc would handle 22,000 lbs without too much difficulty, so we've got a good load. So we can begin to ask a few questions like; what was the take-off run with that load? What would it perform like with Griffons? (Yes, I know that's almost a Lincoln, but I'm thinking just a conversion)

Ooooh,... :wub:  
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Offline lancer

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« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2005, 08:32:35 am »
How about replacing the piston engines with turbines?? RR Mamba al la Wyvern?? ower, shorter take off run, higher payload. All things are possible I suppose. Ok, seeing as I thought of this idea I'd better get a lanc and do one..... Colour schemes anyone??
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Offline Daryl J.

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« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2005, 08:40:04 am »
Not very original but attractive nonetheless:

Overall yellow with red outer 1/3 of wings, red undersurfaces, red cheat line just above the demarkation, and all red tail.     Markings in CFFS----Canadian Fire Fighting Services.

I like the idea of gas turbines muchly.

Daryl J.

Alvis 3.1

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Lancer's luverly idea
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2005, 09:27:01 am »
Oh wow................
What a TOTALLY fantastic idea! Thinking about all the Lancs we scrapped at war's end...we could have made a massive fire fighting force from those!


Alvis 3.1 :P  

Offline The Rat

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Lancer's luverly idea
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2005, 01:07:29 pm »
I'm thinking that turboprops may have been a little too risky post-war, and Canadair also had experience with Griffon conversions when they changed the C-54 into the North Star.

We also need to work out the tankage. Water is approximately 10lbs per gallon, the internal room is finite, so we might not even get up to the maximum theoretical weight. I'm not about to play with the numbers right now, but some bright spark can probably do it quicker than me anyway.  <_<

We would probably need to remove the floor of the bomb bay to allow for the tank, which would probably weaken the structure somewhat. So we brace the fuselage. Internal bracing would be the way to go, but I'm toying with the idea of having it external, just to be different. Here's a quick sketch of what it would look like. Not exactly pretty, a little drag-inducing, but unusual enough to be interesting, at least to me. The one on the left is a cross section, the one on the right a side view. The bracing seen in the cross section would probably be placed at two points, one at each end of the longitudinal brace shown on the right.


 
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Offline elmayerle

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« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2005, 03:31:21 pm »
Mmm, Rat, North Star's were converted to Merlins, not Griffons; hence their designation as DC-4M's.

Personally, I think staying with piston engines at that point in time would make more sense, 'twas a few years yet before reliable turboprops were available.  A subsequent conversion to turboprops might make sense in the 50's, but not before then.
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Offline The Rat

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Lancer's luverly idea
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2005, 04:17:10 pm »
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Mmm, Rat, North Star's were converted to Merlins, not Griffons; hence their designation as DC-4M's.
Yup, my booboo.
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Offline Jschmus

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« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2005, 04:25:56 pm »
When I came back from storage in Virginia, one of the few treasures I did recover was a coffee-table book I picked up some years back about assorted "classic" airplanes in civil service.  Most of the book deals with freighters (lots of DC-3s and -4s, but others, too), but there are a couple of chapters that deal with water bombers.  There are some beautiful shots of bombers converted from B-17s and Neptunes and other planes.  I may be mis-remembering, but I'd swear there's a photo of a water bomber made from a Lanc.  I'll have to look when I get home.  If it is there, I'll snap a digital photo and find a way to upload it to my Yahoo.
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Offline Daryl J.

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« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2005, 01:19:23 pm »
Hey I like the underwing jets......


So, if they were still operational into the 1970s or better, could it be possible that enough  information was pilfered out of Mother Russia about the Tu-95's engines that P&W or GE or RR was able to build a better widget and put it on the Lanky Firebombers?  

Daryl J.

Offline Hobbes

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« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2005, 01:23:00 pm »
The Lancaster was built for 4 Merlins at 1500 shp each. The NK-12 delivers about ten times as much. Putting them in a Lanc would require some   :lol:  structural modifications.
And besides, by the 1970s RR made some fine turboprops themselves. The RR Dart would be rather more suitable for a late Lancaster than an NK-12 derivative.  
« Last Edit: May 29, 2005, 01:24:16 pm by Hobbes »

Offline The Rat

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Lancer's luverly idea
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2005, 02:31:15 pm »
Okay, some quick searching gives me a figure of 62.4 lbs per cubic foot of water, 22,000 lbs = 352 cubic feet. Anyone know the dimensions of the bomb bay, or the internal dimensions of the fuselage? (I guess could easily go over to TAM with a tape measure next week, but I'm getting itchy!)

Some quick ciphering, working with a tank diameter of 4 ft, tells me the tank could be 28 ft long. Somebody please double-check my work...

Over to you for the weight and balance and c of g calculations Evan!
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Geoff_B

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Lancer's luverly idea
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2005, 02:42:14 pm »
Rat

You can get Bulged bomb bay doors for the Lancaster just to confuse matters....

Paragon Bulged Bomb  Bay

Also get a Hercules Engined B.II conversion as well to further stir things up

Hercules Engine conversion

The Lincoln engines are also available i think for D.J Parkins Flightpath range.

Cheers

Geoff B B)  

Offline The Rat

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Lancer's luverly idea
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2005, 03:08:17 pm »
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Rat

You can get Bulged bomb bay doors for the Lancaster just to confuse matters....
Omigawd...  :blink:

This is beginning to get much more complex. We would need to find out the internal dimensions with those doors fitted. Don't think I've got any detailed references on the Lanc, so I'm relying on charity.  ^_^

I'm sorely tempted to go with the idea of removing the bomb bay floor and bracing the fuselage, inside and/or outside. Such a jury-rigged lash up appeals to me in a weird sort of way.  :dum:  
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Ollie

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Lancer's luverly idea
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2005, 04:05:09 pm »
You can also remove the doors, they flew without them when they carried Grand Slam around.

Offline Daryl J.

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« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2005, 04:15:24 pm »
Would one wish to factor out of the equation the weight of turrets, machine guns, shells, and possibly radar?   It may be worth a gallon or two, eh?  

BTW, thanks for the info on the  RR Dart, it's more appropriate.   I love it when fact improves the fiction!  B)

 :cheers:  :cheers:  :cheers:  on a swilling weekend,

Daryl J.