Author Topic: Victorian Aerial Carriage: in which a decision is made and good fortune reported  (Read 727 times)

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Offline Weaver

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I was going to sit this one out to be honest, but I may have been inspired by this image:


(image from here: https://thegraphicsfairy.com/steampunk-image-flying-machine/)

Mostly because it reminded me of some things that were languishing in the stash:



A lot of these fall together so perfectly that it may be impossible for me not to build a flying machine loosely* based on the illustration...



*Results may differ from illustration, manifesto, logic or reality. No liability is accepted for consequent disappointment or outrage.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2019, 04:33:38 am by Weaver »
Neophyte: Is Eris true?
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Neo: Even false things?
MtY: Even false things are true.
Neo: How can that be?
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Offline Rheged

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Re: Victorian Gentleman's Aerial Carriage
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2019, 01:39:10 am »
With those wings, it looks like an archaic batmobile.   However your creation turns out, I do hope you have a pilot like the chap in the pic.  I assume that his moustache adds to the aerodynamics of the vehicle.
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Offline zenrat

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Re: Victorian Gentleman's Aerial Carriage
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2019, 02:02:28 am »
The 'tache would act as a vortex generator ensuring boundary layer flow conditions around his head thus ensuring he didn't lose his captains hat.
Fred

Another ill conceived, lazily thought out, crudely executed and badly painted piece of half arsed what-if modelling muppetry from zenrat industries.

"...the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible.

Offline Weaver

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Re: Victorian Gentleman's Aerial Carriage
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2019, 02:05:18 am »
With those wings, it looks like an archaic batmobile.   However your creation turns out, I do hope you have a pilot like the chap in the pic.  I assume that his moustache adds to the aerodynamics of the vehicle.

To be frank sir, that was a matter of some concern to me upon initial contemplation of this project. However the retrieval of the De Dietrich kit from the nether reaches of one's Stash revealed that, although not illustrated upon the box for some unfathomable reason, the kit does indeed include a fine example of exactly the sort of stout English gentleman required to complete the period aesthetic, and he is indeed possessed of a splendid moustache that could be used to provide steering for the vehicle in the event that it's more conventional controls should fail.

Although, as one might put it in the current idiom, the Stash provided the 'stashe, alas it did not provide a pair of bat-like wings, and thus that is one aspect in which this project will differ significantly from it's inspiration.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2019, 02:07:19 am by Weaver »
Neophyte: Is Eris true?
Malaclypse the Younger: Everything is true.
Neo: Even false things?
MtY: Even false things are true.
Neo: How can that be?
MtY: I don't know man, I didn't do it.
Principia Discordia

Twitter: @hws5mp
www.minds.com: @HaroldWeaverSmith

Offline loupgarou

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Re: Victorian Gentleman's Aerial Carriage
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2019, 02:17:10 am »
For the wings, you could use those from a Brifaut Adler kit. Only problem is that's a very rare and expensive kit.
Or find some bat in the toy range, like this:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Schleich-14719-Fruit-Bat/dp/B00GVTDARE/ref=sr_1_5?s=kids&ie=UTF8&qid=1551176133&sr=1-5&keywords=bat
Owing to the current financial difficulties, the light at the end of the tunnel will be turned off until further notice.

Offline strobez

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Re: Victorian Gentleman's Aerial Carriage
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2019, 02:47:23 am »
Ok... I need to see this happen.  I LOVE it!
Thanks!

Greg

Offline Weaver

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Re: Victorian Gentleman's Aerial Carriage
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2019, 11:31:45 pm »
Fair warning gentlemen: electro-daguerreotypes of a glueless mock-up of this vehicle will hopefully be posted before this morning is out, fair winds and good fortune permitting. Vintage car enthusiasts possessed of a nervous disposition or an easily offended nature are most solemnly advised to avert their gaze.


AN UPDATE:

Good fortune is not, it seems smiling upon me this morning, for, within mere minutes of posting the above message, the plastic seat of the stool upon which I sit in order to perform my modelling activities broke without warning, and I only escaped a most indelicate injury by the slimmest of margins. This is not the first time that the seat in question has come close to doing me intimate violence: it is of Swedish manufacture and, I suspect, resents it's exile from it's native culture and climate. Whatever it's motivations, it has now exhausted all the chances I am willing to afford it, and rather than expending valuable time attempting to effect a repair, I shall replace it with a something more sturdy at the earliest opportunity. In the meantime, another stool, of sub-optimal design but adequate utility, has been pressed into service, and the manufacture of the mock-up shall therefore proceed with only slight delay. Thank you for your understanding and indulgence.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2019, 11:51:52 pm by Weaver »
Neophyte: Is Eris true?
Malaclypse the Younger: Everything is true.
Neo: Even false things?
MtY: Even false things are true.
Neo: How can that be?
MtY: I don't know man, I didn't do it.
Principia Discordia

Twitter: @hws5mp
www.minds.com: @HaroldWeaverSmith

Offline zenrat

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Re: Victorian Gentleman's Aerial Carriage
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2019, 01:19:14 am »
Bugger!

Fred

Another ill conceived, lazily thought out, crudely executed and badly painted piece of half arsed what-if modelling muppetry from zenrat industries.

"...the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible.

Offline Rheged

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Re: Victorian Gentleman's Aerial Carriage
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2019, 01:46:29 am »
My commiserations on your serious furniture malfunction, and congratulations on the avoidance of  most unpleasant damage to your personal assets..

The moustache has not, in my opinion, been sufficiently researched as an aerodynamic device.  Think, for instance of all of those hirsute upper lips visible in pictures of RAF fighter chaps of the 1930's and early '40's. The late Graham Hill's facial hair has been mentioned elsewhere on this site as a means of generating aerodynamic downforce in a formula one vehicle but there is no other literature easily available on this important topic.

..........and let's not even start on the hydrodynamic and hydrostatic properties of Royal Navy officers beards.
"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you....."
It  means that you read  the instruction sheet

Offline Weaver

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Re: Victorian Gentleman's Aerial Carriage
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2019, 02:46:42 am »
Bugger!

Had vigilance not served me well in the previous incident with this chair, in which the pillar upon which the seat rotates broke through it's upper surface, then your chosen terminology would have served as a literal descriptor and not merely as an exclamation... :o
« Last Edit: February 28, 2019, 11:12:25 pm by Weaver »
Neophyte: Is Eris true?
Malaclypse the Younger: Everything is true.
Neo: Even false things?
MtY: Even false things are true.
Neo: How can that be?
MtY: I don't know man, I didn't do it.
Principia Discordia

Twitter: @hws5mp
www.minds.com: @HaroldWeaverSmith

Offline Weaver

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Re: Victorian Gentleman's Aerial Carriage
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2019, 02:50:56 am »
My commiserations on your serious furniture malfunction, and congratulations on the avoidance of  most unpleasant damage to your personal assets..

The moustache has not, in my opinion, been sufficiently researched as an aerodynamic device.  Think, for instance of all of those hirsute upper lips visible in pictures of RAF fighter chaps of the 1930's and early '40's. The late Graham Hill's facial hair has been mentioned elsewhere on this site as a means of generating aerodynamic downforce in a formula one vehicle but there is no other literature easily available on this important topic.

..........and let's not even start on the hydrodynamic and hydrostatic properties of Royal Navy officers beards.

Your commiserations are appreciated sir.

Given that the late professor Geofrey Hill of aeroisoclinic wing fame, as instatiated in the Pterodactyl series of aircraft, was not only engaged in the business of creating unusual aerodynamic surfaces but also shared a surname with Mr. Graham Hill, might one suspect that there existed a hitherto unsuspected connection between the two gentlemen? Perhaps more research is indicated....
Neophyte: Is Eris true?
Malaclypse the Younger: Everything is true.
Neo: Even false things?
MtY: Even false things are true.
Neo: How can that be?
MtY: I don't know man, I didn't do it.
Principia Discordia

Twitter: @hws5mp
www.minds.com: @HaroldWeaverSmith

Offline PR19_Kit

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Re: Victorian Gentleman's Aerial Carriage
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2019, 03:03:29 am »

Given that the late professor Geofrey Hill of aeroisoclinic wing fame, as instatiated in the Pterodactyl series of aircraft, was not only engaged in the business of creating unusual aerodynamic surfaces but also shared a surname with Mr. Graham Hill, might one suspect that there existed a hitherto unsuspected connection between the two gentlemen? Perhaps more research is indicated....


Hm, you may be onto something there.

My late friend, Robin Hill, was involved in that wonder of aerodynamics, the Blackburn Buccaneer, while he worked at Brough.
Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

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Offline zenrat

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Re: Victorian Gentleman's Aerial Carriage
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2019, 03:27:18 am »

Given that the late professor Geofrey Hill of aeroisoclinic wing fame, as instatiated in the Pterodactyl series of aircraft, was not only engaged in the business of creating unusual aerodynamic surfaces but also shared a surname with Mr. Graham Hill, might one suspect that there existed a hitherto unsuspected connection between the two gentlemen? Perhaps more research is indicated....


Hm, you may be onto something there.

My late friend, Robin Hill, was involved in that wonder of aerodynamics, the Blackburn Buccaneer, while he worked at Brough.

Did he have a moustache?

Fred

Another ill conceived, lazily thought out, crudely executed and badly painted piece of half arsed what-if modelling muppetry from zenrat industries.

"...the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible.

Offline Weaver

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Re: Victorian Gentleman's Aerial Carriage
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2019, 03:47:41 am »
Gentlemen, I find myself upon the horns of a dilemma, since not one, not two, but three different schemes have occurred to me as possible means of unconventional locomotion for the same basic body, and I therefore beg your attention and informed opinion as to the merits and pitfalls of all three.

Firstly, we have the ornithopter as originally conceived. The wings of the finished article would be made from those of an Airfix Tiger Moth, but have here been substituted with stout card for the sake of expediency. They would be double-articulated, with hinges at the root and at mid-span. The drive to the flapping mechanisms, via a central shaft and the De Dietrich's original chain drives is also shown, although only one of the 'flapping boxes' is represented, together with token operating arms. I must reiterate that these items are only intended to demonstrate the layout, and do not represent the finished articles in any way.



(I apologise for the narrow depth of field in these electro-daguerreotypes, a failing for which I must take all responsibility, having failed to adjust my camera settings from those used for a previous task. I believe that my intent is still clear from them, however.)



I feel that this design is most in the spirit of true Victorian flying-machine fantasies, but I must confess that I find it a little unsatisfactory in that it conceals to a fair degree the shape of the central cabin, which I feel, quite by accident it is true, evokes rather well the spirit of the early real-world helicopters, specifically the Sikorsky R-4. it is also somewhat complicated in it's construction and I fear the mid-project loss of enthusiasm which experience has taught me to expect in such circumstances.


With this thought in mind, allow me to present the second possible method of completion, namely, the Victorian Helicopter:



This would have the advantages of simplicity and shapeliness, but would be rather more pedestrian in it's concept. The rotor blades would be co-axial and contra-rotating in operation, and would be made from the lower wings of two Revell Nieuport 17c fighters, which feature a suitably narrow chord and the unrealistically short span so typical of Victorian projects. The craft may also feature an unfeasibly small tractor or pusher airscrew of some kind.




The third concept is not illustrated as it is, again, most complex, and I feared that to attempt it would result only in my breaking my promise to post at least something this morning. It might best be described as an aerial rowing boat or 'flaptor'. As in the first scheme, two longitudinal tubes would sit to either side of the craft, but they would be elevated much further above the ground, and would contain shafts that rotate about their axis, driven by the chain gears. Each shaft would support two rotors, front and rear, whose circular blades would behave in a manner somewhat akin to that of a rowing boat's oars, in that they would turn parallel to the ground on the downward side of their travel, in order to push air downwards and thereby generate lift, but would then turn perpendicular to the ground on the upward side of their orbit, thereby avoiding pushing air upwards in a counterproductive manner. Once again, conventional airscrews could be fitted to the ends of these shafts to provide forward motion.

This third idea keeps the Victorian eccentricity of the first concept while preserving the visibility of the cockpit shape from the second. It promises to be as equally complex as the first to construct however.

As you can see, our sturdy pilot is equipped with a fine moustache a most suitable and stylish tweed cap for his aeronautical endeavours.
Neophyte: Is Eris true?
Malaclypse the Younger: Everything is true.
Neo: Even false things?
MtY: Even false things are true.
Neo: How can that be?
MtY: I don't know man, I didn't do it.
Principia Discordia

Twitter: @hws5mp
www.minds.com: @HaroldWeaverSmith

Offline PR19_Kit

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Re: Victorian Gentleman's Aerial Carriage
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2019, 05:49:33 am »

Given that the late professor Geofrey Hill of aeroisoclinic wing fame, as instatiated in the Pterodactyl series of aircraft, was not only engaged in the business of creating unusual aerodynamic surfaces but also shared a surname with Mr. Graham Hill, might one suspect that there existed a hitherto unsuspected connection between the two gentlemen? Perhaps more research is indicated....


Hm, you may be onto something there.

My late friend, Robin Hill, was involved in that wonder of aerodynamics, the Blackburn Buccaneer, while he worked at Brough.

Did he have a moustache?


Not when I knew him, no. Perhaps that's a factor too?
Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

Regards
Kit