Author Topic: Aggressor Aircraft  (Read 915 times)

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Offline Leading Observer

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Re: Aggressor Aircraft
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2018, 03:07:40 am »
From my days in the Royal Observer Corps, I recall an exercise where the MoD were trying to see if there was still a role for the Corps in tracking low flying aircraft. RAF and USAF aircraft too part, and all were identified by the Group taking part, including the Royal Danish Air Force planes that had been invited to take part! Types, Air Force and in some cases even Squadrons were correctly reported ;D
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Offline PR19_Kit

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Re: Aggressor Aircraft
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2018, 03:36:56 am »

 Types, Air Force and in some cases even Squadrons were correctly reported ;D


I should hope so too.  :thumbsup:

And the pilot's inside leg measurement as well?  ;)
Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

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Offline AS.12

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Re: Aggressor Aircraft
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2018, 06:32:12 am »
Googling for Saab 32 Lansen Mojave finds photos of some different ones with different civilian registrations.

There were three Lansens exchanged for a PR Spitfire and ferried to the USA, but indeed only one subsequenetly flew there: N5468X, operated by Mach Two Flight services. 

N4432V and N4767R were grounded after arriving.

Offline TheChronicOne

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Re: Aggressor Aircraft
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2018, 08:30:44 am »
Learjets anyone?  I read somewhere that there was one being used as an aggressor in the States. I KNOW the Japanese use them:

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Offline tahsin

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Re: Aggressor Aircraft
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2018, 05:28:12 am »
It's the graduation fight, it can be arranged to bring in a warbird or a visiting foreign air force plane. Even a Flanker, so that people will not be over excited. The discussions should be not how to pull the ejection handle, but coming out of a stall or similar basic precautions. So that the F-14 or 18 pilot can stay on guard as the helpless WW II plane might not be hopelessly stalling but putting the pipper on the Navy jet and "winning".

Online scooter

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Re: Aggressor Aircraft
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2018, 05:43:53 am »
Learjets anyone?  I read somewhere that there was one being used as an aggressor in the States. I KNOW the Japanese use them:



As I recall from my time up in Iceland, the 57th FS did indeed go up against Lears owned by one of the aggressor contractors. 
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Offline perttime

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Re: Aggressor Aircraft
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2018, 10:07:17 am »
There was a company that used the tiny Bede BD-5J jets to provide Small Manned Aerial Targets that would simulate cruise missiles.

https://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/james-bonds-micro-jet-lives-on-as-a-pretend-cruise-miss-1613344267


Offline tahsin

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Re: Aggressor Aircraft
« Reply #22 on: October 15, 2018, 12:23:40 am »
For all its worth, here's the passage from George Hall book:

"The last week of Top Gun is a mixture of large-scale strike missions and a few wild cards. A favorite hop is called the graudation 1 V 1. After weeks of section and divison work, the stzff throws one last 1 V 1 party, and it's doozy. Guest Gomers of all stripes are invited to fky to Yuma and jump in; past baddies have included Air Force teen jets, low-level attack birds seldom encountered in dogfights, and just about else who can be talked into fighting _ the weirder, the better. Only the exercise coordinatoe knows who will fight whom; students might draw Top Gun pilots, fellow students or one of the mystery guests. Each player is handed a sealed letter which includes some insulting prose ("Dear Communist Pig," "Esteemed Imperialist Lackey") and a time, location and radio frequency for the single joust.

Students and teachers gather in Classroom 1 for a rah-rah mass briefing and all are advised to keep an eye out for strange and wondrous opponents. Just before the envelopes are handed out, Top Gun instructors are called upon to recie departure drills for an oddball collection of adversaries -MiG-21, F-106, F-20, British Sepecat Jaguar, even hoary World War II numbers like F-4U Corsair (Sandy "Jaws" Winnefeld holding forth on the latter: "...cowl flaps open, prop pitch full forward..."). Graduate 1 V 1 coordinators have even been nagging Flight Systems, a civilian outfit that flies retired military jets in ordnance testing and target towing missions, to send down one of their Canadian-built F-86s to take part. Talk about MiG-17 simulators'

One tradition is vigorously held after the fights: the victors get to suck up into a tight echelon leading to an ultra-snappy break over the field, while the vanquished must fly an ignominious straight-in instrument approach via the despised Poway TACAN. It's just about the only time in the Top Gun course that horn tooting is encouraged."

Fighter pilots and ego have somehow become words that can be used in place of the other. Top Gun crews are special in this case; they like beaten by a punk because it was them who taught it to the punk. They also expect their graduates to be their surrogates in the Fleet, so should have a bit of same feeling. Once or twice a decade or a year or maybe every course, there will be a Pete Mitchell that refuses the concept and think he doesn't require anyone, being a god that walks the earth. So that final 1 V 1 would be an excellent venue to give Maverick the chance to prove it. Say, Viper grabbing an F-16 that doesn't have its AoA limited to 26 degrees. When Maverick blames his unexpected demise on the teachers, it would be time for Jester to ask Maverick that whether it was true that he was the re-incarnation of the Red Baron and so needed no help from mere mortals. Which then might help Maverick adjust to the reality of a real fight where he might loose Goose because he held the MiG-28s and its drivers in comtempt... Who knows, he might even be assigned to Miramar to be an instructor himself!

speaking of the Red Baron, Heater Heatley is a central piece of the book and am positive after retiring from the Navy he was last reported crashing a WW I warbird in the 1990s. You know, just in case if the coordinators needed an actual Spad, he would be ready to fly one.


Offline Snowtrooper

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Re: Aggressor Aircraft
« Reply #23 on: October 15, 2018, 04:53:31 am »
The full quote helps to put everything in context <_< So the strange exotics could be planes visiting Red Flag, or even from private warbird collections, not that they were necessarily operated by the USN, the USMC, or the USAF.

The idea itself, though no doubt imagined tongue in cheek, is of course valid: in real world, you could run into just about anything, so it's a good way to test whether the students have genuinely learned to fight dissimilar opponents, or whether they have just learned to fight A-4 and F-5.

Offline kitnut617

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Re: Aggressor Aircraft
« Reply #24 on: October 15, 2018, 06:52:19 am »
Some F-16 aggressors I've photographed, top tow at the recent 2018 Cold Lake Airshow, bottom on at the Palm Springs Air Museum a few years ago. (left clip a pic to reduce the size, then use the scroll wheel to view each pic)





« Last Edit: October 15, 2018, 06:54:02 am by kitnut617 »
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