Author Topic: FV432 and all it's variants  (Read 891 times)

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Offline Weaver

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FV432 and all it's variants
« on: August 01, 2018, 05:12:50 pm »
Since we now have the Takom kit in 1/35th and are promised a 1/72nd kit from S&M in time for Telford, we should probably have a thread for the M113's red-headed, steel-hulled, right-hand drive step-child, the uniquely British (i.e. nobody else bought it) FV432 armoured personnel carrier.

Real world FV432 facts: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FV432

So what could you do with one of these whiff-wise? Some random thoughts:

Fire support vehicle with Saracen or Scorpion turret

UK buys TOW instead of Swingfire: intitial version has TOW pedestal mount firing thorugh the open roof hatch, later version has M901 Hammerhead unit or some other more sophisticated TOW turret.

UK replaces Swingfire with HOT. Probably need to scratchbuild a turret for this, but they're not too complicated.

M548-style flatbed cargo carrier, possibly using a Stalwart cab.

ACAV equivalent for a Britain-in-Vietnam scenario, with multiple shielded machine-gun mounts and spaced armour.

Export it to somebody else: fit a non-British turret for APC or fire-support roles. The AML-90 turret would probably fit.
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Offline rickshaw

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Re: FV432 and all it's variants
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2018, 08:10:45 pm »
US Army experience with spaced armoured M113s in Vietnam was not good.  They tried by welding bars and adding nets to the sides of the vehicle but found when transiting Jungle, they were ripped off.   They decided that their best defence was "speed and shock", preventing the RPG gunners having sufficient time to get a bead on the vehicles as they charged through the forest around them.  Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't.   As the NLF were using initially RPG-2s and cheap Chinese/Vietnamese knockoffs, their fuses weren't all that reliable and they more often than not failed to work in the short distances to the targets.   Even when they did, the after-armour effects were not all that great as the warheads were too small.  After about 1969, when the RPG-7 with it's larger warhead became available, things changed somewhat.
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Offline Old Wombat

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Re: FV432 and all it's variants
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2018, 01:35:40 am »
Export it to somebody else: fit a non-British turret for APC or fire-support roles. The AML-90 turret would probably fit.

Australia buys & uses the FV432 & uses it in Vietnam instead of the M113, including FSV with the Saladin turret upgrading to an MRV with Scorpion turret.
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Offline Mossie

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Re: FV432 and all it's variants
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2018, 09:17:33 am »

M548-style flatbed cargo carrier, possibly using a Stalwart cab.

And versions of, especially those that the British Army bought, such as tracked Rapier, MLRS, Lance launcher and carrier.  Also a minelayer like the Skorpion, instead of Shielder.
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Offline rickshaw

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Re: FV432 and all it's variants
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2018, 11:12:01 pm »
Export it to somebody else: fit a non-British turret for APC or fire-support roles. The AML-90 turret would probably fit.

Australia buys & uses the FV432 & uses it in Vietnam instead of the M113, including FSV with the Saladin turret upgrading to an MRV with Scorpion turret.

There were several reasons why Australia didn't buy the FV432.  Perhaps the biggest was cost.  We got the M113 at Foreign Military Sales (FMS) prices which was dirt cheap.   We purchased over 800 of them (half of which ended up in war reserves and we never used).   The other was that after trials the report was the location of the exhaust on the FV432 was disadvantageous compared to the M113.  The trials reported that the M113 could be maneuvered more easily in a forest by laying the sides of the vehicle hard against a tree trunk and turning hard.  You could only do that to the right on the FV432 whereas you could it both ways on the M113.  Now, if the FV432 could be redesigned, to place the exhaust on top of the hull?
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Offline Mossie

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Re: FV432 and all it's variants
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2018, 11:34:36 pm »
Or a simple shroud?  IIRC, the British often hung a kit pannier above it, I assume to give some measure of protection.
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Offline NARSES2

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Re: FV432 and all it's variants
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2018, 06:44:50 am »
Or a simple shroud?  IIRC, the British often hung a kit pannier above it, I assume to give some measure of protection.

Or to keep lunch warm ?  :angel:
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Offline Mossie

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Re: FV432 and all it's variants
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2018, 08:21:00 am »
Or a simple shroud?  IIRC, the British often hung a kit pannier above it, I assume to give some measure of protection.

Or to keep lunch warm ?  :angel:

If I remember rightly, those exhausts could get red hot too, you could probably cook something over a few days in those panniers!
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Offline Rheged

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Re: FV432 and all it's variants
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2018, 11:35:43 am »
At the risk of introducing thread drift, I have been given to understand that in the 1950's "Steak Centurion" was a dish served by tank crews. A lot of tinfoil and wet newspaper, a suitable location in the engine compartment and 12 miles across country (rare) to 20 miles (well done). Little sister has cooked a salmon in her dishwasher (full recipe on request) and Keith Floyd the TV cook once gave a recipe for what he called "Chicken Rolls Royce"  involving a Silver Cloud exhaust manifold.  Cooking time given in miles and rpm.
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Offline Weaver

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Re: FV432 and all it's variants
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2018, 02:02:31 pm »
So where might Britain have exported the FV432 to?

Apart from NATO countries, the Middles East seems to have been one of our best export markets. Maybe Saudi Arabia, Jordan or Kuwait would have taken some. Another possibility would have been pre-revolutionary Iran, which raises the possibility of modified versions with home-made or Chinese weapons.

Here's another thought: what if the FV432 had been offered, perhaps in modified form, as a package deal with the Vickers Main Battle Tank? That puts India (who actually bought some 2nd hand FV432 IRL), Kuwait, Nigeria, Kenya and a Tanzania in the picture.
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Offline Rheged

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Re: FV432 and all it's variants
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2018, 02:24:18 pm »
Production started in 1962, so some might even have gone to South Africa.   Possibly locally manufactured variants existed after the arms embargoes of August 1963 and later .  The United Nations Security Council Resolution 418, adopted unanimously on 4 November 1977, imposed a mandatory arms embargo against South Africa.
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Offline zenrat

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Re: FV432 and all it's variants
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2018, 04:31:17 am »
At the risk of introducing thread drift, I have been given to understand that in the 1950's "Steak Centurion" was a dish served by tank crews. A lot of tinfoil and wet newspaper, a suitable location in the engine compartment and 12 miles across country (rare) to 20 miles (well done). Little sister has cooked a salmon in her dishwasher (full recipe on request) and Keith Floyd the TV cook once gave a recipe for what he called "Chicken Rolls Royce"  involving a Silver Cloud exhaust manifold.  Cooking time given in miles and rpm.

I've long wanted to try Salmon a la Fisher & Paykel but for some reason Mrs z has banned me from cooking in the dishwasher.
 :-\
Fred

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Offline Rheged

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Re: FV432 and all it's variants
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2018, 02:38:45 pm »
At the risk of introducing thread drift, I have been given to understand that in the 1950's "Steak Centurion" was a dish served by tank crews. A lot of tinfoil and wet newspaper, a suitable location in the engine compartment and 12 miles across country (rare) to 20 miles (well done). Little sister has cooked a salmon in her dishwasher (full recipe on request) and Keith Floyd the TV cook once gave a recipe for what he called "Chicken Rolls Royce"  involving a Silver Cloud exhaust manifold.  Cooking time given in miles and rpm.

I've long wanted to try Salmon a la Fisher & Paykel but for some reason Mrs z has banned me from cooking in the dishwasher.
 :-\

I'll get the precise details from my sister and pass them on.   Alison reckoned it was a perfectly poached fish!!
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Offline zenrat

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Re: FV432 and all it's variants
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2018, 05:27:24 pm »
At the risk of introducing thread drift, I have been given to understand that in the 1950's "Steak Centurion" was a dish served by tank crews. A lot of tinfoil and wet newspaper, a suitable location in the engine compartment and 12 miles across country (rare) to 20 miles (well done). Little sister has cooked a salmon in her dishwasher (full recipe on request) and Keith Floyd the TV cook once gave a recipe for what he called "Chicken Rolls Royce"  involving a Silver Cloud exhaust manifold.  Cooking time given in miles and rpm.

I've long wanted to try Salmon a la Fisher & Paykel but for some reason Mrs z has banned me from cooking in the dishwasher.
 :-\

I'll get the precise details from my sister and pass them on.   Alison reckoned it was a perfectly poached fish!!

I have heard that.  I would be grateful for the recipe.
Thanks.
Fred

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Offline NARSES2

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Re: FV432 and all it's variants
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2018, 01:00:22 am »
  Alison reckoned it was a perfectly poached fish!!

Back in the day I had an uncle with whom one could have poached, poached trout or salmon  :angel:

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