Author Topic: Bizjets, Executive aircraft and related  (Read 986 times)

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Offline joncarrfarrelly

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Bizjets, Executive aircraft and related
« on: April 17, 2018, 08:11:10 pm »
Brit concepts.






Blackburn




Originally a concept for a VTOL military liaison aircraft, considered for exec role, centre fan lift.





Two SR.177 based concepts.


"Evil our grandsires were, our fathers worse;
And we, till now unmatched in ill,
Must leave successors more corrupted still."
Horace, 65BC - 8BC. Marsh translation.

Offline NARSES2

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Re: Bizjets, Executive aircraft and related
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2018, 06:12:58 am »
The Beagle's a neat looker  :thumbsup:
Decals my @r$e!

Offline TallEng

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Re: Bizjets, Executive aircraft and related
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2018, 07:44:46 am »
The Beagle's a neat looker  :thumbsup:
Indeed :thumbsup: the tail is very Alfa jet like and the wings most Mustangish,
Just need an idea for the forward fuselage.
(Not checked anything for size, just going on what looks like)

Regards
Keith
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Offline Weaver

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Re: Bizjets, Executive aircraft and related
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2018, 06:21:39 pm »
Nice one Jon - good call. :thumbsup:

Looking at alternative/early bizjet concepts, I always wonder whether the 'normal' layout we have nowadays, with two podded engines at the rear and a high tail, is really the best, or is it just the convention that everybody's used to? Burying the engines in the rear fuselage would almost certainly reduce drag, just as it does on a fighter jet, but would the increased speed and/or decreased fuel consumption be worth the extra maintenance headaches? How bad would those be anyway, with proper detailed design?
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Offline joncarrfarrelly

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Re: Bizjets, Executive aircraft and related
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2018, 07:52:56 pm »
The main issue with buried engines is replacing them with newer,
improved, more efficient engines as engine technology improves.
Itís a hell of a lot more expensive than developing a new nacelle
design.

The very minor difference in drag isnít worth it for aircraft that donít
spend long periods of time in the speed ranges where it makes a
difference, as with fighters etc., which is the reason that strut mounted,
podded engines, became the standard configuration for commercial
aircraft, and will remain so for the foreseeable future. 
"Evil our grandsires were, our fathers worse;
And we, till now unmatched in ill,
Must leave successors more corrupted still."
Horace, 65BC - 8BC. Marsh translation.

Offline joncarrfarrelly

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Re: Bizjets, Executive aircraft and related
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2018, 08:40:27 pm »
The Beagle's a neat looker  :thumbsup:
Indeed :thumbsup: the tail is very Alfa jet like and the wings most Mustangish,
Just need an idea for the forward fuselage.
(Not checked anything for size, just going on what looks like)

Regards
Keith

Length: 38í 6Ē
Wingspan: 40í
Height: 13í

Based on the data it seems that P-51D wings would be a perfect basis.
Good catch.  :thumbsup:
"Evil our grandsires were, our fathers worse;
And we, till now unmatched in ill,
Must leave successors more corrupted still."
Horace, 65BC - 8BC. Marsh translation.

Offline PR19_Kit

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Re: Bizjets, Executive aircraft and related
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2018, 02:05:47 am »
Looking at the drawings I can't help wondering what they were smoking or drinking on the Isle of Wight back then.  :o

There's not a single Saunders Roe design that was in any way conventional, and it seems that went for the civvie designs as well as the military ones!
Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

Regards
Kit

Offline joncarrfarrelly

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Re: Bizjets, Executive aircraft and related
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2018, 05:44:44 pm »
More SARO, two of the different configurations studied during the P195 & P202 design
process.


Four engines buried in the rear fuselage, tiltable for short takeoff.



Indeed you are correct Kit, From Sea to Air by Tagg & Wheeler has 18 pages
of post-war concept drawings, with two to eight drawings per page.
 :thumbsup:
"Evil our grandsires were, our fathers worse;
And we, till now unmatched in ill,
Must leave successors more corrupted still."
Horace, 65BC - 8BC. Marsh translation.

Offline zenrat

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Re: Bizjets, Executive aircraft and related
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2018, 02:55:51 am »
Apart from everything else, doesn't putting the engines in external pods make things a bit quieter inside the plane?
Also less vibration.

Fred

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Offline Weaver

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Re: Bizjets, Executive aircraft and related
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2018, 03:03:32 am »
Seems an appropriate place to leave this screenshot from Twitter... :wacko:

Neophyte: Is Eris true?
Malaclypse the Younger: Everything is true.
Neo: Even false things?
MtY: Even false things are true.
Neo: How can that be?
MtY: I don't know man, I didn't do it.
Principia Discordia

Twitter: @hws5mp
www.minds.com: @HaroldWeaverSmith

Offline joncarrfarrelly

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Re: Bizjets, Executive aircraft and related
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2018, 12:39:28 pm »
 ;D  ;D  :thumbsup:
"Evil our grandsires were, our fathers worse;
And we, till now unmatched in ill,
Must leave successors more corrupted still."
Horace, 65BC - 8BC. Marsh translation.

Offline AS.12

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Re: Bizjets, Executive aircraft and related
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2018, 03:23:11 pm »
Bottom of this page from the Flight archives, model of Lockheed trijet concept for a successor to the JetStar. Same configuration as the TriStar with underwing engines and S-duct in the tail but on a stretched JetStar fuselage.

https://www.flightglobal.com/FlightPDFArchive/1969/1969%20-%202951.PDF

Some details in text to right.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2018, 03:32:03 pm by AS.12 »