Author Topic: Hamilcar Mk. X as a low-cost transport plane?  (Read 1266 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Default Setting

  • Out of the Whiffing Closet
  • **
  • Posts: 98
Hamilcar Mk. X as a low-cost transport plane?
« on: March 04, 2018, 01:19:27 am »
The General Aircraft Hamilcar was designed as a heavy-duty glider, but as was the case in Germany with the Me 321 Gigant, the option of making it self-powered was explored. The result was the Mark X, which was fitted with two Bristol Mercury engines.



Only a few were made and the concept didn't go further. But what I'm wondering about, is whether the Hamilcar Mk. X might have been suitable as a low-cost transport plane? Or was it too fragile to serve in such a role?
The one duty we owe to history is to rewrite it.
-- Oscar Wilde

Offline NARSES2

  • Nick was always on his mind - just ask the Pet Shop Boys
  • Global Moderator
  • Needs A Life Outside What-If
  • *****
  • Posts: 34999
Re: Hamilcar Mk. X as a low-cost transport plane?
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2018, 01:28:55 am »
Hamilcar was fairly robust, but as an aircraft that was intended to be land conventionally rather than in a controlled crash landing a powered version should be fine I would have thought ?
Decals my @r$e!

Offline zenrat

  • Needs A Life Outside What-If
  • *****
  • Posts: 13269
  • Not on the rug, man!
Re: Hamilcar Mk. X as a low-cost transport plane?
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2018, 02:02:51 am »
It's an idea I explored on a smaller scale with a Hotspur.

GAL 50 Porthus 007 by Fred Maillardet, on Flickr

Original thread (with the pics replaced) here http://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php/topic,41513.msg710884.html#msg710884
Fred

Let's make Victoria great again.

Another ill conceived, poorly thought out, crudely executed and badly painted piece of what-if modelling muppetry from zenrat industries.

https://www.wunderground.com/personal-weather-station/dashboard?ID=IMELBOUR261

Offline PR19_Kit

  • Closeted Take That fan
  • What-IF SIG
  • Needs A Life Outside What-If
  • *****
  • Posts: 27760
  • Whiffing since the 70s
Re: Hamilcar Mk. X as a low-cost transport plane?
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2018, 02:06:06 am »
There's a large chunk of a real Hamilcar, albeit not a Mk X, at the Army Aviation Museum at Middle Wallop, and it's displayed as if it was being built. There's a guy modelled as if he's sawing up timber for the outer wing and another up on the roof fitting the canopy, all very realistic.

You certainly notice that it doesn't look as strong as a conventional transport, but as Chris says, landing one under control would be different to banging it into the ground knowing that it wasn't ever going anywhere again.

Actually it was developed further as its blood line can be clearly tracked all the way to the Beverley.
Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

Regards
Kit

Online kitnut617

  • That's got his tum rumbling already just by the sound of it.
  • Needs A Life Outside What-If
  • *****
  • Posts: 10477
Re: Hamilcar Mk. X as a low-cost transport plane?
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2018, 07:03:59 am »
I've read that the engines were basically used to 'assist' the take-off when heavily loaded. However, I have a book on radar development that has photos of a Mk.X with a huge radome in the nose instead of the usual doors. Another photo shows the radar dish mounted in the fuselage opening and it fills the whole open area.
If I'm not building models, I'm out riding my dirtbike

Offline Default Setting

  • Out of the Whiffing Closet
  • **
  • Posts: 98
Re: Hamilcar Mk. X as a low-cost transport plane?
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2018, 12:48:31 pm »
I've read that the engines were basically used to 'assist' the take-off when heavily loaded.
Indeed. But apparently it was also able to take off unassisted with a lower load--3.175 metric tons max, which doesn't seem much less than what a DC-3 can carry.

Does anyone know how expensive a Hamilcar Mk. X was to manufacture, in order to have a point of comparison with regular transport aircraft?
The one duty we owe to history is to rewrite it.
-- Oscar Wilde

Offline PR19_Kit

  • Closeted Take That fan
  • What-IF SIG
  • Needs A Life Outside What-If
  • *****
  • Posts: 27760
  • Whiffing since the 70s
Re: Hamilcar Mk. X as a low-cost transport plane?
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2018, 01:06:35 pm »
Can't find anything on the net, but this is an interesting side light on their manufacture.

https://paradata.org.uk/people/joan-gemmell-nee-butler
Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

Regards
Kit

Offline Martin H

  • Im their Leader. Which way did they go?
  • What-IF SIG
  • Needs A Life Outside What-If
  • *****
  • Posts: 8208
Re: Hamilcar Mk. X as a low-cost transport plane?
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2018, 02:13:25 pm »
There's a large chunk of a real Hamilcar, albeit not a Mk X, at the Army Aviation Museum at Middle Wallop, and it's displayed as if it was being built. There's a guy modelled as if he's sawing up timber for the outer wing and another up on the roof fitting the canopy, all very realistic.
That would be "TK777". Sorry Kit its a replica. I found that out talking to one of the museum bods when I was there for the IPMS 2016 AGM.

The section at the tank museum is real thou.

You certainly notice that it doesn't look as strong as a conventional transport, but as Chris says, landing one under control would be different to banging it into the ground knowing that it wasn't ever going anywhere again.

Actually it was developed further as its blood line can be clearly tracked all the way to the Beverley.
It make me wonder if it influenced Bristols when they were designing the Freighter.
I always hope for the best.
Unfortunately,
experience has taught me to expect the worst.

Size (of the stash) matters.



IPMS (UK) What if? SIG Leader.
IPMS (UK) TSR-2 SIG Member.
IPMS (UK) R & D SIG Member.
IPMS (UK) DC-3/C-47 SIG Member.

Offline PR19_Kit

  • Closeted Take That fan
  • What-IF SIG
  • Needs A Life Outside What-If
  • *****
  • Posts: 27760
  • Whiffing since the 70s
Re: Hamilcar Mk. X as a low-cost transport plane?
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2018, 02:25:59 pm »

That would be "TK777". Sorry Kit its a replica. I found that out talking to one of the museum bods when I was there for the IPMS 2016 AGM.


A 'Museum bod' told me that most of the fuselage was found after being a lady's garden shed for many years, so they crossed her palm with silver and took it back to Middle Wallop. Then they added the newly built chunk of port wing that's on it now and tidied it up a lot as a display item.
Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

Regards
Kit

Offline Martin H

  • Im their Leader. Which way did they go?
  • What-IF SIG
  • Needs A Life Outside What-If
  • *****
  • Posts: 8208
Re: Hamilcar Mk. X as a low-cost transport plane?
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2018, 02:28:38 pm »

That would be "TK777". Sorry Kit its a replica. I found that out talking to one of the museum bods when I was there for the IPMS 2016 AGM.


A 'Museum bod' told me that most of the fuselage was found after being a lady's garden shed for many years, so they crossed her palm with silver and took it back to Middle Wallop. Then they added the newly built chunk of port wing that's on it now and tidied it up a lot as a display item.
wouldnt you know it, left hand not knowing what the right is doing/saying LOL
I always hope for the best.
Unfortunately,
experience has taught me to expect the worst.

Size (of the stash) matters.



IPMS (UK) What if? SIG Leader.
IPMS (UK) TSR-2 SIG Member.
IPMS (UK) R & D SIG Member.
IPMS (UK) DC-3/C-47 SIG Member.

Offline The Rat

  • Proud Designated Pervert
  • Needs A Life Outside What-If
  • *****
  • Posts: 8211
  • Rivets? We don't count no stinkin' rivets!
    • http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=3947338590
Re: Hamilcar Mk. X as a low-cost transport plane?
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2018, 03:02:42 pm »
Actually it was developed further as its blood line can be clearly tracked all the way to the Beverley.

No surprise, it's certainly ugly enough to be a Blackburn project!  ;D
"My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought, cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives." Hedley Lamarr, Blazing Saddles

Offline joncarrfarrelly

  • Bertie Bassett
  • What-IF SIG
  • Needs A Life Outside What-If
  • *****
  • Posts: 6744
  • Turn that Gila-copter down!
Re: Hamilcar Mk. X as a low-cost transport plane?
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2018, 03:08:23 pm »
Perhaps four engines like the Miles M.40 project, which was to use four Hercules, or four R-2600.
Dimensionally only slightly larger than the Hamilcar, although almost twice as
heavy empty, and at max weight.
Wingspan: 112' (Hamilcar: 110')
Length: 75' (Hamilcar: 68')
Empty weight: 35,000 lb (Hamilcar: 18,400 lb)
Max take-off weight: 70,000 lb (Hamilcar: 36,000 lb)
Max payload: 28,000 lb (Hamilcar: 7,000 lb)

"Evil our grandsires were, our fathers worse;
And we, till now unmatched in ill,
Must leave successors more corrupted still."
Horace, 65BC - 8BC. Marsh translation.

Offline NARSES2

  • Nick was always on his mind - just ask the Pet Shop Boys
  • Global Moderator
  • Needs A Life Outside What-If
  • *****
  • Posts: 34999
Re: Hamilcar Mk. X as a low-cost transport plane?
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2018, 06:48:59 am »
but as Chris says, landing one under control would be different to banging it into the ground knowing that it wasn't ever going anywhere again.



Now I know Horsa's were planned to be re-usable, although I don't know what the actual % was for reused airframe's, I assume they were to be towed/flown out by the way ? No idea if the Hamilcar's were reusable although I would have thought their was a small chance of that happening being factored in when it was designed ?
Decals my @r$e!

Offline PR19_Kit

  • Closeted Take That fan
  • What-IF SIG
  • Needs A Life Outside What-If
  • *****
  • Posts: 27760
  • Whiffing since the 70s
Re: Hamilcar Mk. X as a low-cost transport plane?
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2018, 09:47:27 am »
I guess that would depend on how large the DZ was, or LZ, sorry. Goodness knows how they'd have got a glider tug into the field by Pegasus Bridge, it'd have needed to be a Harrier to get in and out!  :o

There was a scheme to 'snatch' gliders off the ground while the tug flew overhead and there's a good Pathe News vid of it here :-

https://www.britishpathe.com/video/glider-snatching
Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

Regards
Kit

Offline zenrat

  • Needs A Life Outside What-If
  • *****
  • Posts: 13269
  • Not on the rug, man!
Re: Hamilcar Mk. X as a low-cost transport plane?
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2018, 02:40:07 pm »
I guess that would depend on how large the DZ was, or LZ, sorry. Goodness knows how they'd have got a glider tug into the field by Pegasus Bridge, it'd have needed to be a Harrier to get in and out!  :o

There was a scheme to 'snatch' gliders off the ground while the tug flew overhead and there's a good Pathe News vid of it here :-

https://www.britishpathe.com/video/glider-snatching

That looks fun.
Lot of things to go wrong though.
Fred

Let's make Victoria great again.

Another ill conceived, poorly thought out, crudely executed and badly painted piece of what-if modelling muppetry from zenrat industries.

https://www.wunderground.com/personal-weather-station/dashboard?ID=IMELBOUR261