Author Topic: Supermarine Type 327  (Read 462 times)

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Offline The Wooksta!

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Supermarine Type 327
« on: November 13, 2017, 12:39:19 pm »
Now that Colin has let the cat out of the bag, I'm going to confess that I have one, possibly more, of his kit of this aircraft project and this will be the build thread for said kit.

The Type 327 is essentially a twin engine fighter with elements of Spitfire design in it.  She looks like this model by Joe Cherrie



Some more information and drawings can be found in these links.
http://www.a-e-g.org.uk/might-have-beens.html
http://www.nevingtonwarmuseum.com/supermarine-327-spito.html

Photos will follow at some point of the bits and I have an early release sans decals and instructions as they aren't ready yet.  This shouldn't really hamper the build but has slowed down release.

Looking at the bits in the box - I believe they were cast by Czechmaster, they simply ooze quality and knowing the name of the guy* who mastered it cemented my feeling that this is going to be a very enjoyable kit to build.  I have a scheme and squadron user in mind so this is likely to be an OOB build.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 12:42:02 pm by The Wooksta! »
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Offline PR19_Kit

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Re: Supermarine Type 327
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2017, 01:26:07 pm »
Coooer, that looks good.

Wasn't there a pusher version of it too? I recall a Unicrap kit of that version some time ago.
Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings

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Offline The Wooksta!

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Re: Supermarine Type 327
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2017, 01:38:52 pm »
Unicrap do a few variations on the theme.  All of them undoubtedly bad.  It's somewhat telling that there are no photos on his website of the castings but there are photos of the masters.  Comparing them to this masterpiece is like comparing an Aston Martin with a Lada that's been through a crusher.

Here are the links and behold them in all their awfulness.
http://www.unicraft.biz/on/spito/spito.htm
http://www.unicraft.biz/on/s-325/s-325.htm

I did scale up the drawing in BSP Vol 3 for the Type 324 with the Taurus tractor version and started gathering some bits - a DH Hornet fuselage looked to be an ideal donor fuselage with the Airfix Vc wing as the.. err, wing and reshaped Mosquito tail surfaces.  I really like the idea of a version with a pair of Wellands or Derwents...
« Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 01:43:51 pm by The Wooksta! »
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Offline wuzak

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Re: Supermarine Type 327
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2017, 07:44:54 pm »
Wasn't there a pusher version of it too? I recall a Unicrap kit of that version some time ago.

Yes.

Supermarine submitted two designs for the fighter specification which led to the Hawker Tornado and Typhoon.

The Type 324 was a conventional twin, using either Merlin or Taurus, while the Type 325 was a twin engine pusher, also with Merlin or Taurus.

These were to be armed, as the original Tornado/Typhoon, with 12 machine guns.

The Type 324 was upgraded to the Type 327 to compete as a cannon armed fighter. The 327 was to have 6 20mm Hispano cannon.

Offline Knightflyer

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Re: Supermarine Type 327
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2017, 02:29:39 am »
Now that Colin has let the cat out of the bag, I'm going to confess that I have one, possibly more, of his kit of this aircraft project and this will be the build thread for said kit.

Okay - for those of us that weren't at Telford - could you confirm exactly what Colin has let out of the bag???
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Offline PR19_Kit

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Re: Supermarine Type 327
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2017, 03:10:08 am »
Just as in the thread title, a Supermarine Type 327.
Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

Regards
Kit

Offline Knightflyer

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Re: Supermarine Type 327
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2017, 04:12:26 am »
Just as in the thread title, a Supermarine Type 327.

I did guess that  ;D  ;) but wondered if there was more detail / info available ......
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Offline Tophe

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Re: Supermarine Type 327
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2017, 08:13:38 am »
Interesting subject... :thumbsup:
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Offline kitnut617

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Re: Supermarine Type 327
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2017, 09:43:12 am »
Just as in the thread title, a Supermarine Type 327.

I did guess that  ;D  ;) but wondered if there was more detail / info available ......

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Offline wuzak

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Re: Supermarine Type 327
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2017, 05:56:29 pm »
This is some data I posted on another site. It comes from Supermarine's proposal.

The engine performances:

Merlin RM.2SM
Fuel: 100 octane

Supercharger GearHighLow
Maximum Power (bhp)1,1451,265
at Altitude (ft)16,7509,500
International Rating (bhp)1,1351,250
at Altitude (ft)15,5008,000
Power at Economical Cruising Speed @ 15,000ft (bhp)-233
Take-off Power (bhp)-1,300
RPM-3,000
Reduction Gear0.420.42
Dry Weight (lb)1,3901,390

Taurus TE-3SM
Fuel: 100 octane

Supercharger GearHighLow
Maximum Power (bhp)1,1651,250
at Altitude (ft)15,0005,000
International Rating (bhp)9801,080
at Altitude (ft)15,0005,000
Power at Economical Cruising Speed @ 15,000ft (bhp)-226
Take-off Power (bhp)-1,200
RPM-3,300
Reduction Gear0.4440.444
Dry Weight (lb)1,3451,345


Estimated performance:

EnginesMerlinTaurus
All Up Weight (lb)11,31210,536
Maximum Speed (mph)465430
at altitide (ft)22,00020,000
Speed at 15,000ft (mph)423404
Economical Cruising Speed (mph)210195
at altitide (ft)15,00015,000
Service Ceiling40,00035,500
Take-off Over 50ft, no wind (yd)409465
Landing Over 50ft, no wind (yd)439393

The wing had a span of 40ft and wing area of 304sq.ft. It was fitted with Fowler Flaps which covered 57.5% of the span.

The wing was structurally very similar to the Spitfire's. It was described has having a single spar at the maximum thickness. It was built in 5 sections:
The centre section was built with the fuselage and contained the 6 20mm cannon installation.

The mid sections contained the engine, the radiator (buried in the wing outboard of the engine, fed from a leading edge intake), the main landing gear (folding inwards), the Fowler flaps and mechanisms and fuel tanks in the leading edge inboard of the engine (68 UKG each, and forming part of the structure) and in the engine nacelle (42 UKG each).

The outer wing panels contained the ailerons. These could be swapped for panels conaining 6 0.303" mgs for the ground attack role.

The wing section was of the NACA 2200 family, as was the Spitfire's.

The basic dimensions were:
EnginesMerlinTaurus
Span (ft)4040
Gross Area (sq.ft)3434
Length Overall (ft)33.533.5
Height on Wheels (static) (ft)9.759.75
Chassis Track (ft)12.512.5
Wheelbase (ft)99
Airscrew Diameter (ft)10.38.75


The weight break down was:

EnginesMerlinTaurus
Structure (lb)3,7763,696
Power Plant (lb)4,4103,809
Load3,1263,031
All Up Weight11,31210,536

The breakdown of the load was:
EnginesMerlinTaurus
Pilot and Parachute200200
Fixed Military Load583583
Removeable Load875875
Fuel (at 7.2lb/UKG)1,2251,265
Oil243108
Load3,1263,031

Offline wuzak

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Re: Supermarine Type 327
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2017, 06:04:01 pm »
Not sure if this will work.










Offline Rheged

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Re: Supermarine Type 327
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2017, 02:47:19 am »
Very useful, thanks!!
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Offline Weaver

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Re: Supermarine Type 327
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2017, 05:23:32 am »
Supermarine twin-engined projects:

Type 313
Submitted to the 1936 "split single" twin-engined cannon-fighter requirement won by the Whirlwind. Long nose with four 20mm, tailwheel and razorback fuselage. Powered by two Kestrels or licence-built Hispano 12Ys, the latter option allowing for two more cannons in the engine Vs. Initially the preferred choice of all the submissions, but then dropped in favour of the Wesland proposal due to long predicted delivery times.


Type  324
Submitted to the 1937 requirement won by the Typhoon. Similar in appeaaence to the 327 but with tailwheel undercarriage and twelve .303 Brownings in the outer wings instead of cannon. Alternative Merlin and Taurus engine installations.


Type 325
As per the 324 but with pusher props. The engines were still located ahead of the wing spar, but reversed and with shafts leading to the pusher props. Taurus engines would have had a cooling fan in the front of the nacelle, not sure about the Merlin installation.

Both 324 and 325 were rejected in favour of the Typhoon. BSP-3 doesn't give reasons, but I've read elsewhere that Rolls-Royce's estimates of the development time needed for the shaft drives and alternative cooling arrangements were instrumental in killing off the 325. Similar factors to the 327 would have applied to both.


Type 327
See earlier posts for details. Principle reasons for rejecting it were:

a) Lack of confidence in Supermarine's ability to develop it quickly.
b) Three other twin-engined cannon-fighter projects already in development that promised faster results (Beaufighter, Whirlwing and Gloster Reaper).
c) Armament Department didn't like the 327's gun installation, considering it cramped and impractical.
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Offline NARSES2

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Re: Supermarine Type 327
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2017, 07:25:58 am »
I did fight the Unicraft kit and I think I won ?  :rolleyes:

It's on site here somewhere
Decals my @r$e!