Poll

Which clarification of the term 'Soviet' do you favour for the rules of this GB? (see reply #79 for details)

Anything Goes
21 (48.8%)
Soviet Russia Only
22 (51.2%)

Total Members Voted: 43

Voting closed: January 09, 2017, 09:31:39 am

Author Topic: Soviet GB Suggested Rules  (Read 11965 times)

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Offline Weaver

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Re: Soviet GB Suggested Rules
« Reply #30 on: December 21, 2016, 08:27:12 pm »
Maybe you do not accept Po-9 http://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php/topic,30040.0.html but what about Po-11?

Yes your Po-9 is too far advanced for this GB, but assuming the Po-11 comes from the same backstory then it's fine.
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Offline Knightflyer

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Re: Soviet GB Suggested Rules
« Reply #31 on: December 22, 2016, 02:10:42 am »
So ......

To test the boundaries so to speak.... If I was to do a Mid Life Update to my Hawker Siddeley/Tupolev Chancellor (M)R.Mk.1 

http://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php/topic,38715.0.html

as operated by the 'non-aligned' United Kingdom would that be acceptable under Rule 2?

It's not a big deal if it's not acceptable, but if it is okay it'll be a great excuse to tackle my next 'RAF' Bear  ;D

thanks


The mods have conferred and yes, this is acceptable. The key thing is that the aircraft was supplied from the Soviet Union, so whatever the political status of the operator, it would be acceptable.

Ohhhh thank you Moderators  ;D ;D Here's to some Bear-Bashing (or Chancellor-Chopping as the case may be!) in the New Year  ;D
Probably spent more time than is healthy painting a Bear's bottom!

Offline TheChronicOne

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Re: Soviet GB Suggested Rules
« Reply #32 on: December 22, 2016, 08:45:47 am »
No comment on the rules aside from mirroring what a few have said about made up states or whatever. It just seems like a way to make literally anything and have it work by saying, "Oh by the way it's a Soviet satellite state."  I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers though. I'm happy keeping "no made up satellites" as a rule for myself only and others can do as they wish within the current rules. 

I'm assuming doing an AH-64 Apache done up in Soviet Russia cold-war era attire would be acceptable so I have that planned already and most likely any entries I have will be similar "alternate markings" whifs of actual stuff... just made in glorious Soviet Russia. I'm a fan of using "they cloned it like they did with the B-29!"   ;D   My skill level isn't good for more involved things like scratch building and kit bashing so I'll play it safe this way.  :lol:
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Offline sandiego89

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Re: Soviet GB Suggested Rules
« Reply #33 on: December 22, 2016, 02:20:24 pm »
I guess I could have be clearer.  I do prefer tighter themes, and was stating my preference that I am just not into made up countries, or scenarios and backstories that are unrealistic.  Like Chronicle says it can be used to make anything fit- then it just becomes a free for all GB.

I do think there is something to be said about keeping in theme. I just do not think what "what if the UK bought the Tu-160" as very realistic, nor "what if the X-wing fighter was imported by Latvia", or what if "Japan joined the Warsaw pact and ordered the MiG-25".  Sure a MiG-25 would look great in JASDF colors, but it seems to be pushing it-  again, just my opinion.     

To me something with a "big red star" just screams Soviet, or equally something civil like Aeroflot.  I think Soviet made in service with a realistic user, or copied or captured equipment is perfectly fine.     
Dave "Sandiego89"
Chesapeake, Virginia, USA

Offline Weaver

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Re: Soviet GB Suggested Rules
« Reply #34 on: December 22, 2016, 02:24:27 pm »
No comment on the rules aside from mirroring what a few have said about made up states or whatever. It just seems like a way to make literally anything and have it work by saying, "Oh by the way it's a Soviet satellite state."  I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers though. I'm happy keeping "no made up satellites" as a rule for myself only and others can do as they wish within the current rules. 

I'm assuming doing an AH-64 Apache done up in Soviet Russia cold-war era attire would be acceptable so I have that planned already and most likely any entries I have will be similar "alternate markings" whifs of actual stuff... just made in glorious Soviet Russia. I'm a fan of using "they cloned it like they did with the B-29!"   ;D   My skill level isn't good for more involved things like scratch building and kit bashing so I'll play it safe this way.  :lol:

That's fine, because it's in the service of a Soviet state, so it's 'related' to the Soviet Union.

The point of allowing made-up Soviet satellite states is to cover the fact that some people have come up with quite elaborate alternative histories in which countries like Britain, Sweden or Denmark have slid to the left and ended up as either part of the Warsaw Pact or at the least 'fellow travellers', with WP hardware. Under those circumstances, banning them from a 'Soviet GB' seems a little counter-productive.

The irony is that I too like tightly-focussed GBs with strict rules, but past experience has shown that that's not the majority view on the forum and when such GBs have been run, the participation has been low.
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Offline TheChronicOne

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Re: Soviet GB Suggested Rules
« Reply #35 on: December 22, 2016, 02:53:55 pm »
Awesome! Glad it fits the bill, I'm already pretty excited. I've never built a helicopter kit, even when I was young'n.   :lol:  I spotted a really cool looking paint scheme on a Hind (I'd post a pic but they stated that it was not to be used ANYWHERE else for ANY purpose) that I fell in love with.

For the rest, that makes sense to me; you explained it well, thank you!   <_<
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Offline sandiego89

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Re: Soviet GB Suggested Rules
« Reply #36 on: December 22, 2016, 03:56:30 pm »
Thanks Chris, good discussion.  I guess it just shows the variance of narrow vs broad in folks thinking.  I just see "Soviet" or Soviet made/client/in Soviet service as giving plenty of leeway without having to resort to wild backstories and fictional countries.  With plenty of air/land/civil/space/ship leeway over decades of time.  Now "Flemish piston power" might be a tad more restrictive... :)   
Dave "Sandiego89"
Chesapeake, Virginia, USA

Offline Dizzyfugu

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Re: Soviet GB Suggested Rules
« Reply #37 on: December 23, 2016, 01:42:03 am »
Personally, I like an open perspective on GBs - at least those which run for a longer period of time. I normally have several ideas for the theme, and I like weirdo ideas like a Soviet Republic of Britain. It just has to be explained somehow, IMHO. Just taking a kit and slapping some Red Stars onto it is O.K. in the spirit of the GB, but I think there should be a little more effort. ;)

Tighter themes are IMHO better suited for shorter GBs, when things boil down to more sprcific works - also due to the limited time.

Personally looking forward to this one, and the creations it will spawn.  :wacko:

Offline chrisonord

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Re: Soviet GB Suggested Rules
« Reply #38 on: December 23, 2016, 01:53:21 pm »
Hmm?
Could I, build one of my Russian/ex Soviet vehicles or aircraft that was a prototype   in real world but in my alternative world be a production aircraft snapped up by a group of very naughty boys and girls and pressed into service in a certain South American country?
Cheers,
Chris

As long as in the what-if world, the production version is a product of the Soviet Union or one of it's allies/clients, then this is okay. If it was an original design by a South American country, then it wouldn't be okay.
Cheers H,
I am considering a Soviet era prototype aircraft, that went into limited production(in whiff world) and after a number were built, were cancelled by the Soviet navy, and the air force didn't want them, so a certain cartel bought some.  :wacko:
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Offline strobez

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Re: Soviet GB Suggested Rules
« Reply #39 on: December 23, 2016, 07:49:04 pm »
Apologies if I haven't totally grasped the different points of view, but I'm wondering if we can't make a compromise to the rules.  Basically by saying either the state itself or the machine need to be soviet.  So that would allow both Whif builds of soviet-made hardware (i.e. MiG, Yak, etc.) to be either full soviet, "captured" (I.e. USA or Japanese colours) or straight up made up states.  On the other hand if you want to build a Mustang or an F-14 as a captured bit of hardware, it needs to be decked out in actual soviet-style colours, but would not include say a Borurian Bf-109 by saying "oh, it's a satellite state".

I think this will allow for the best of both world's while leaving tons of creative freedom.  I'm planning on build a Yak-3 and Yak-38 but I want them in "soviet-esque" colours, but no actual red stars.  So I'd obviously like the freedom to do that and still be in the GB. ;)
Thanks!

Greg

Offline Tophe

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Re: Soviet GB Suggested Rules
« Reply #40 on: December 23, 2016, 09:24:48 pm »
Group Build runs from 00.01 Saturday 28th January 2017 to 24:00 Sunday 30th April 2017.
Will it start only in more than one month from now? forbidding to post anything before?

I have another question: for my birthday December 27th I may have a (Soviet-built) KhAI-3 model, resin 1/72, but I am almost sure I will build it not as a plane of the Soviet Union (or other socialist country) but as a "dream of the world". Does the "Soviet designer" qualify it for this GB? or should I post it in the general Aircraft section?
[the word "realistic" hurts my heart...]

Offline NARSES2

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Re: Soviet GB Suggested Rules
« Reply #41 on: December 24, 2016, 06:20:00 am »
Apologies if I haven't totally grasped the different points of view, but I'm wondering if we can't make a compromise to the rules.  Basically by saying either the state itself or the machine need to be soviet. 

Right, now whilst not a "direct" moderator for the GB I did draft the rules and I think that's o.k. I'll bow to the moderators for a final decision however.

Group Build runs from 00.01 Saturday 28th January 2017 to 24:00 Sunday 30th April 2017.
Will it start only in more than one month from now? forbidding to post anything before?

I have another question: for my birthday December 27th I may have a (Soviet-built) KhAI-3 model, resin 1/72, but I am almost sure I will build it not as a plane of the Soviet Union (or other socialist country) but as a "dream of the world". Does the "Soviet designer" qualify it for this GB? or should I post it in the general Aircraft section?

Right Tophe not wanting to pre-empt the moderators (but at this time of year everyone is busy)

The G.B. doesn't start until 28th January because the Old Kit G.B. will not finish until the middle of January and then we need to organise the vote etc. We don't like to have 2 G.B.'s running at the same time as it can get a little complicated. You can post as much discussion about your planed build as you want but you can't start work on it (other than very basic preparation) until the G.B. officially starts.

I'll leave the second of your questions to the moderators.

Have a happy birthday  :thumbsup:

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Offline Weaver

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Re: Soviet GB Suggested Rules
« Reply #42 on: December 24, 2016, 09:57:39 am »
Apologies if I haven't totally grasped the different points of view, but I'm wondering if we can't make a compromise to the rules.  Basically by saying either the state itself or the machine need to be soviet. 

Right, now whilst not a "direct" moderator for the GB I did draft the rules and I think that's o.k. I'll bow to the moderators for a final decision however.


The question that begs is 'what do you mean by 'soviet' (i.e. an adjective rather than a nationality)?" Are we saying that the origin of the machine or it's user needs to be from the Soviet Union, or just from a 'soviet-style' state? If it's the former, then what about the many and various products of other Warsaw Pact members such as PZL or Aero ones? If it's the latter, then what degree of remove from the USSR is acceptable? Warsaw Pact members only? Formally allied, such as Cuba? What about non-aligned Communist states such as Yugoslavia?

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Offline Weaver

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Re: Soviet GB Suggested Rules
« Reply #43 on: December 24, 2016, 09:59:23 am »
Group Build runs from 00.01 Saturday 28th January 2017 to 24:00 Sunday 30th April 2017.
Will it start only in more than one month from now? forbidding to post anything before?

I have another question: for my birthday December 27th I may have a (Soviet-built) KhAI-3 model, resin 1/72, but I am almost sure I will build it not as a plane of the Soviet Union (or other socialist country) but as a "dream of the world". Does the "Soviet designer" qualify it for this GB? or should I post it in the general Aircraft section?

Hi Tophe, can I ask for a bit more info on this one please? If it has a Soviet (USSR citizen?) designer, then where is it being built and who is it being operated by?
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Offline joncarrfarrelly

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Re: Soviet GB Suggested Rules
« Reply #44 on: December 24, 2016, 11:39:06 am »
RE definition of soviet, in English it literally means council and the Russian originals were not Communist,
so I'd say, in the context of what Chris has presented, he's using it in the narrower sense of the USSR
aka the Soviet Union and related state entities.

As opposed to things like the Limerick Soviet:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limerick_Soviet
or the Bavarian Soviet Republic:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bavarian_Soviet_Republic
etc.
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