Author Topic: Inspirations Mk.II  (Read 8487 times)

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Offline Weaver

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Re: Inspirations Mk.II
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2015, 04:17:43 pm »
How about the RAF's fears about Spitfire & Hurricane availability come to pass and they have to adopt the Miles Master as an emergency fighter?
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Offline rickshaw

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Re: Inspirations Mk.II
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2015, 06:12:27 pm »
How about the RAF's fears about Spitfire & Hurricane availability come to pass and they have to adopt the Miles Master as an emergency fighter?

I thought that the Miles M22 was the emergency fighter?

Even so, anything that could be built in the time frame and geographic limitations mentioned in the rules is basically acceptable.   Jets and Rocket powered aircraft aren't.
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Offline The Wooksta!

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Re: Inspirations Mk.II
« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2015, 07:13:59 pm »
A number of Miles Masters had the rear seat removed and were to be used as single seat beach strafers had the invasion happened.  The Pegasus kit was mastered from the wrong drawings and was the fighter version rather than the trainer.  Worth picking up as it was one of Chris Gannon's better efforts.  Failing that, re-engine a Frog/Novo Master III with a Mercury.

The Miles 22 was to have been the panic fighter but would have needed time for tooling.  The Miles Master was already in production and could be adapted quicker.
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Offline joncarrfarrelly

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Re: Inspirations Mk.II
« Reply #18 on: August 31, 2015, 07:19:03 pm »
Miles M.22 was an exotic 'super-interceptor':


The M.20 was the designated 'emergency fighter', but Master M.24 fighter conversions would have
been the only realistically 'timely' solution.
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Offline The Wooksta!

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Re: Inspirations Mk.II
« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2015, 07:22:25 pm »
Give Germany a four-engined bomber. They had two credible real-world prototypes: the Ju89 and the Do19.

Credible prototypes, true, but no industrial resources or money to put them into production without cutting something else in the Luftwaffe budget.  3 Do 17 or one Do 19?  You do the maths.  Besides, without adequate radio aids or the necessary fuel reserves and manpower to crew them, any Luftwaffe strategic bomber becomes less feasible with every day that passes.

As for the He 100.  I've long thought that it would have had similar fuel/range problems to the Bf 109.  It's a smaller aircraft than the 109!  Spanish He 112Bs or Hs 123s over the Channel?  Yeah, that's more likely.
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Offline Weaver

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Re: Inspirations Mk.II
« Reply #20 on: August 31, 2015, 08:41:01 pm »
Give Germany a four-engined bomber. They had two credible real-world prototypes: the Ju89 and the Do19.

Credible prototypes, true, but no industrial resources or money to put them into production without cutting something else in the Luftwaffe budget.  3 Do 17 or one Do 19?  You do the maths.  Besides, without adequate radio aids or the necessary fuel reserves and manpower to crew them, any Luftwaffe strategic bomber becomes less feasible with every day that passes.

Well they wasted a ton of money and resources on the He 177 fiasco that would have been better spent on the Do 19 or Ju 89, and it wouldn't have hurt to have built fewer Stukas. Did they really need three twin-engined medium bombers? If they'd been serious about four-engined bombers then the radio aids would have been developed with them: they certainly had the capability. It's all choices and trade-offs. The main Luftwaffe objection to heavy bombers was the tactical doctrine of Udet, Kesselring et al, who favoured short, tactical campaigns that wouldn't give strategic bombing time to take effect, rather than long wars of attrition that would. If Walter Wever had survived his air crash in 1936, there might have been more of a pro-strategic faction in the Luftwaffe.

In any case, a whiff doesn't have to be an improvement on reality or a better idea. Plenty of mistakes are made in real life when the correct answers seem blindingly obvious with hindsight: any whiff-world becomes more credible rather than less for having a few of those too.

Quote
As for the He 100.  I've long thought that it would have had similar fuel/range problems to the Bf 109.  It's a smaller aircraft than the 109!  Spanish He 112Bs or Hs 123s over the Channel?  Yeah, that's more likely.

True, but if range didn't stop them buying the Bf 109, it wouldn't stop them buying the He 112 or He 100 either. The He 112 was the favorite going into the 1936 fighter competition, with the Bf 109 being an outside contender that only gradually won the test pilots over, and simplicity and speed of construction was at least as important in it's selection as flying characteristics. It doesn't take much reality-tweaking to get the He 112 ordered:

1. Heinkel does slightly better: maybe the initial A-series used in the trials was closer to the lighter and faster B-series?

2. Messerschmitt does slightly worse: maybe the 109s have a couple of unlucky crashes that turn the test pilots against them, or maybe they have a factory fire that means they can't meet the promised production schedule?

3. The RLM have a two-source policy and order both the 109 and the 112. Such policies were common at the time in other countries, and even the RLM ended up buying multiple medium bomber types.

4. Politics. In real life, Wily Messerschmitt was a notably good player of the political game while Ernst Heinkel notably wasn't. Suppose that had been different, and Heinkel had managed to make a few more influential freinds and a few less enemies?

Would the He 112, followed by a rationalised He 100, been a better choice than the 109? Probably not, given that it was slower and more expensive to produce, but it would certainly have been a credible one. The Luftwaffe promoted the idea that it had gone into service as disinformation, and the RAF accepted it without batting an eyelid, including the Heinkel types in it's recognition guides well into the war.
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Offline zenrat

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Re: Inspirations Mk.II
« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2015, 03:30:09 am »
It's going to need a longer tail wheel strut or i'll have clearance problems with the rear prop.


Or a smaller contra-prop?

I'm probably wrong (and i'm sure someone will be able to post a picture) but 1940 seems a bit early for a contra-rotating prop.

Give Germany a four-engined bomber. They had two credible real-world prototypes: the Ju89 and the Do19.

They had an operational four engine bomber.  The Condor.   But it was a maritime patrol bomber not a strategic bomber.  So how about an FW-200 with the ventral bath tub removed and a big donkey bomb bay put in its place?  You'd need a glazed nose for the bomb aimer and i'd personally also want to add a nose turret, tail gunner, ball turret and a couple of waist guns.  Basically a full on fliegende festung.



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Another ill conceived, poorly thought out, crudely executed and badly painted piece of what-if modelling muppetry from zenrat industries.

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Offline Flyer

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Re: Inspirations Mk.II
« Reply #22 on: September 01, 2015, 03:45:41 am »
Wow, love the look of the Miles M.22 :wub:
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Offline tigercat

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Re: Inspirations Mk.II
« Reply #23 on: September 01, 2015, 04:07:30 am »
So maybe some armidillo and bison inspired builds  for the home guard then :)

Offline Weaver

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Re: Inspirations Mk.II
« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2015, 04:18:24 am »

Give Germany a four-engined bomber. They had two credible real-world prototypes: the Ju89 and the Do19.

They had an operational four engine bomber.  The Condor.   But it was a maritime patrol bomber not a strategic bomber.  So how about an FW-200 with the ventral bath tub removed and a big donkey bomb bay put in its place?  You'd need a glazed nose for the bomb aimer and i'd personally also want to add a nose turret, tail gunner, ball turret and a couple of waist guns.  Basically a full on fliegende festung.

Not much modification needed: the Condor could carry 2000lb of bombs which is as much as an early B-17. The big problem with the Condor was strength. They were only stressed as civilian airliners and quite a few of them that survived battle damage broke their back as they made a hard landing back at base. you could see high-intensity bombing ops wearing out a fleet of unmodified ones very quickly.

Then again, if they were really committed to a heavy bomber fleet, they probably WOULD have modified it, and that wouldn't be hard to model. Just stick a bunch of Typhoon-style strengthening plates around the outside of the fuselage just behind the wing.
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Offline Captain Canada

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Re: Inspirations Mk.II
« Reply #25 on: September 01, 2015, 04:55:08 am »
Love the Miles type there....very sleek ! I like the 4 engine bomber ideas too !

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Offline NARSES2

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Re: Inspirations Mk.II
« Reply #26 on: September 01, 2015, 06:59:21 am »
Who was it had the radial-engined He70? Hungary?

Yes
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Re: Inspirations Mk.II
« Reply #27 on: September 01, 2015, 09:57:05 am »
I never knew that - cheers! Burtonwood is just down the road from me.

A Hawk in the markings of a No.11 Group squadron would still be a whiff then...

I didn't think you were that far away. My RAF P-36 is top left in the pic below, unfortunately you can't see the 'different' underside which all-over aluminium dope with French roundels.

I'm sure an 11 Gp. P-36 would be perfectly acceptable, unless my fellow Mod. has any objections.  ;D

Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage

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Offline Weaver

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Re: Inspirations Mk.II
« Reply #28 on: September 01, 2015, 12:24:11 pm »
Nice one Kit. :thumbsup:

I wasn't actually planning on doing the Hawk myself because I don't have one to spare, but it's an idea for somebody else.
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Offline kitbasher

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Re: Inspirations Mk.II
« Reply #29 on: September 01, 2015, 12:49:22 pm »
M22 - 1930's style Star Wars Pod Racer.

And my inspirations are weaponry and Italy.
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