Author Topic: The General Staff and the Helicopter  (Read 479 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Thorvic

  • Evil Kit Finder Git General
  • Administrator
  • Needs A Life Outside What-If
  • *****
  • Posts: 11319
    • Album
The General Staff and the Helicopter
« on: November 26, 2018, 09:46:56 am »
Since 1918 and the formation of the RAF, the British Army has sought its own dedicated close support capability. This finally entered the Army Air Corps (AAC) order of battle in 2004 with the arrival of the WAH-6D Apache Longbow.

The AAC had been arming its helicopters since the service’s establishment in its modern form in 1957, even if that was a Sterling poked out the door of a Skeeter. The arrival of the Scout saw heavier weapons, including guided weapons, mounted on the AAC's machines but it was the Lynx and its TOW anti-tank missiles that gave the British Army the means to halt the Soviet Horde. Meanwhile, across Europe, armies sought an attack helicopter - what the popular press call a ‘gunship’ - as an alternative to the US Apache and Europe's helicopter builders proposed types such as the Fokker/VFW/Westland P.277, Agusta A129, Eurocopter Tiger, Westland WG.44, WG.45 and WG.47 types for consideration.

The General Staff and the Helicopter examines these alternatives to the AH-64 Apache from the British Army’s perspective, drawing on previously unpublished material from HM Government and company archives to describe how the AAC’s doctrine changed from the agile, small and stealthy Agusta A129 and WG.44 of GST.3971 to the large and tough Apache of SR(A).428. This change saw the resulting procurement process become a foregone conclusion but rules of procurement saw the Cobra Venom, LHX, Mangusta, Rooivalk and Tiger up against the General Staff’s favourite; Westland’s WAH-64D Apache.

Lavishly illustrated with many previously unpublished photographs and drawings, including original artwork by Luciano Alviani, The General Staff and the Helicopter tells the story of how the British Army acquired the most formidable close support helicopter on earth as its long sought after organic close support platform.

Hopefully we'll have The General Staff and the Helicopter available in the spring.

Thanks for your ongoing support in our efforts to document areas of aerospace that receive little attention.

Chris



Project Cancelled SIG Secretary, specialising in post war British RN warships, RN and RAF aircraft projects. Also USN and Russian warships

Offline kitbasher

  • What-IF SIG
  • Needs A Life Outside What-If
  • *****
  • Posts: 3925
  • bashes kits
Re: The General Staff and the Helicopter
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2018, 10:31:47 am »
Rotaries are not my cup of tea but I hope the book sells well.

What are the twin-boom jet beasties on the front cover?  They look like the offspring of a Sea Vixen and a Focke-Wulf Flitzer - a sort of 80s-tech de Havilland Venom.
IPMS What If? & Secret Project SIG member.
On the go: Arrow, Beaumaris, Battle, Bronco GA.1, Buzzard II, CASA 2.217, Corsair GR.1, EE P12, Hawker P1067, Hellcat IV, Ice Cream Tank, JP T4, Jumo MiG-15, Macchi MC.205, Meteor F.8R, Phantom FG1, Sea Hawk T7, Spitfire XII, Ta154, Val, Wellington.

Online PR19_Kit

  • Closeted Take That fan
  • What-IF SIG
  • Needs A Life Outside What-If
  • *****
  • Posts: 28283
  • Whiffing since the 70s
Re: The General Staff and the Helicopter
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2018, 10:47:05 am »

What are the twin-boom jet beasties on the front cover?  They look like the offspring of a Sea Vixen and a Focke-Wulf Flitzer - a sort of 80s-tech de Havilland Venom.


Land Vixens?  ;)
Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

Regards
Kit

Offline kitbasher

  • What-IF SIG
  • Needs A Life Outside What-If
  • *****
  • Posts: 3925
  • bashes kits
Re: The General Staff and the Helicopter
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2018, 12:44:38 pm »
Land Vixens?  ;)

Notwithstanding your knowing wink they most certainly are not Vixens of any description, Kit, but they'd make a great whif subject! 
IPMS What If? & Secret Project SIG member.
On the go: Arrow, Beaumaris, Battle, Bronco GA.1, Buzzard II, CASA 2.217, Corsair GR.1, EE P12, Hawker P1067, Hellcat IV, Ice Cream Tank, JP T4, Jumo MiG-15, Macchi MC.205, Meteor F.8R, Phantom FG1, Sea Hawk T7, Spitfire XII, Ta154, Val, Wellington.

Offline Thorvic

  • Evil Kit Finder Git General
  • Administrator
  • Needs A Life Outside What-If
  • *****
  • Posts: 11319
    • Album
Re: The General Staff and the Helicopter
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2018, 02:10:14 pm »
Rotaries are not my cup of tea but I hope the book sells well.

What are the twin-boom jet beasties on the front cover?  They look like the offspring of a Sea Vixen and a Focke-Wulf Flitzer - a sort of 80s-tech de Havilland Venom.


BAC P.70 EAG.8436 (p294 BSP:2 Jet bomber since 1949 2nd Edition) evolved Jaguar/Harrier hybrid to AST.396
Project Cancelled SIG Secretary, specialising in post war British RN warships, RN and RAF aircraft projects. Also USN and Russian warships

Offline kitnut617

  • That's got his tum rumbling already just by the sound of it.
  • Needs A Life Outside What-If
  • *****
  • Posts: 10699
Re: The General Staff and the Helicopter
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2018, 02:49:27 pm »
Rotaries are not my cup of tea but I hope the book sells well.

What are the twin-boom jet beasties on the front cover?  They look like the offspring of a Sea Vixen and a Focke-Wulf Flitzer - a sort of 80s-tech de Havilland Venom.


BAC P.70 EAG.8436 (p294 BSP:2 Jet bomber since 1949 2nd Edition) evolved Jaguar/Harrier hybrid to AST.396

A 3-View is also in the 1st addition, page 185.
If I'm not building models, I'm out riding my dirtbike

Offline Thorvic

  • Evil Kit Finder Git General
  • Administrator
  • Needs A Life Outside What-If
  • *****
  • Posts: 11319
    • Album
Re: The General Staff and the Helicopter
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2018, 11:57:24 pm »
Rotaries are not my cup of tea but I hope the book sells well.

What are the twin-boom jet beasties on the front cover?  They look like the offspring of a Sea Vixen and a Focke-Wulf Flitzer - a sort of 80s-tech de Havilland Venom.


BAC P.70 EAG.8436 (p294 BSP:2 Jet bomber since 1949 2nd Edition) evolved Jaguar/Harrier hybrid to AST.396

A 3-View is also in the 1st addition, page 185.

Cheers Robert, I had the 2nd Edition to hand where as the 1st editions were in other bookcases or rooms.

Anyway one to look forward to with the focus on the Attack helicopters
Project Cancelled SIG Secretary, specialising in post war British RN warships, RN and RAF aircraft projects. Also USN and Russian warships

Offline kitnut617

  • That's got his tum rumbling already just by the sound of it.
  • Needs A Life Outside What-If
  • *****
  • Posts: 10699
Re: The General Staff and the Helicopter
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2018, 05:14:53 am »
Rotaries are not my cup of tea but I hope the book sells well.

What are the twin-boom jet beasties on the front cover?  They look like the offspring of a Sea Vixen and a Focke-Wulf Flitzer - a sort of 80s-tech de Havilland Venom.


BAC P.70 EAG.8436 (p294 BSP:2 Jet bomber since 1949 2nd Edition) evolved Jaguar/Harrier hybrid to AST.396

A 3-View is also in the 1st addition, page 185.

Cheers Robert, I had the 2nd Edition to hand where as the 1st editions were in other bookcases or rooms.

Anyway one to look forward to with the focus on the Attack helicopters

I've got one of Martin's P.1216 kits, the fuselage center section looks very similar. You could use the booms from the kit too ---
If I'm not building models, I'm out riding my dirtbike

Offline Gondor

  • What-IF SIG
  • Needs A Life Outside What-If
  • *****
  • Posts: 6513
  • Builds Slower Than A Glacier Moves
Re: The General Staff and the Helicopter
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2018, 01:54:17 pm »
I have an old, and I mean old Airfix Jaguar sitting around not doing anything at the moment, I could be tempted to have a go at the P.70

Gondor
My Ability to Imagine is only exceeded by my Imagined Abilities

Offline AS.12

  • Makes own decals
  • ***
  • Posts: 418
Re: The General Staff and the Helicopter
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2018, 10:43:42 pm »
Oooh this book is definitely on my wishlist now.

I sort-of 'grew up' with the A.129 through the 1980s and it seemed that it was never going to enter service, I couldn't understand why it had such a glacial development process, and that was just the weak-engined Mk 1 let alone the Mk 2 that the AAC wanted.

One point-of-divergence I've considered as a head-WHIF was an interim solution built on the S-70; Shorts took a license from Sikorsky in the early 1980s whilst Westland was faffing with the WG.30 Fat Lynx.  The proposal was as a Wessex replacement but with the ESSS wings it might have made a useful Royal Hind for a couple of decades, too.

Offline Thorvic

  • Evil Kit Finder Git General
  • Administrator
  • Needs A Life Outside What-If
  • *****
  • Posts: 11319
    • Album
Re: The General Staff and the Helicopter
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2018, 11:37:33 pm »
Should be interesting to see what the home grown designs are like and if they could be built or even kitted  :thumbsup:
Project Cancelled SIG Secretary, specialising in post war British RN warships, RN and RAF aircraft projects. Also USN and Russian warships

Offline Gondor

  • What-IF SIG
  • Needs A Life Outside What-If
  • *****
  • Posts: 6513
  • Builds Slower Than A Glacier Moves
Re: The General Staff and the Helicopter
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2018, 01:14:03 am »
I wonder if the S-67 is in the book as a proposed aircraft seeing that I have one in the stash looking to be built with a suitable operator.

Gondor
My Ability to Imagine is only exceeded by my Imagined Abilities

Offline elmayerle

  • What-IF SIG
  • Needs A Life Outside What-If
  • *****
  • Posts: 6366
Re: The General Staff and the Helicopter
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2018, 08:37:26 pm »
One point-of-divergence I've considered as a head-WHIF was an interim solution built on the S-70; Shorts took a license from Sikorsky in the early 1980s whilst Westland was faffing with the WG.30 Fat Lynx.  The proposal was as a Wessex replacement but with the ESSS wings it might have made a useful Royal Hind for a couple of decades, too.
Well, according to the AIAA book on the S-70/H-60, Sikorsky did propose an attack derivative of the H-60 to the US Army.
"Reality is the leading cause of stress amongst those in touch with it."
--Jane Wagner and Lily Tomlin