Author Topic: the "Dump the JSF" (or "alternate NATO fighter aircraft after 2015") GB  (Read 16103 times)

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Offline Nils

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ok, first off, this GB is not intended to shoot down the F-35 and has no political intentions  :dalek:

the idea is this, what if the F-35 gets cancelled or (thinking outside the box) never existed?
with the rising costs and problems in management, it could be likely  :-\
what fighter would the RAF, US and other NATO allies buy to replace they're fleet of aging fighters.

a number of exsamples are already known to be concidered (Gripen-NG in The Netherlands, F/A-18E/F in Denmark, Rafale-M with the FAA a few years back,...)
so i thought why not have a Group Build to see what kind of alternatives these countries would concider if the F-35 fails to get off the ground  :rolleyes:
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Offline Taiidantomcat

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Re: the "Dump the JSF" (or "alternate NATO fighter aircraft after 2015") GB
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2011, 01:20:14 pm »
This could be a lot of fun in all seriousness.  :thumbsup: I might actually go with an F-18H, cover it in sensors and conformal tanks and add a lift fan  :thumbsup:
« Last Edit: August 26, 2011, 01:34:59 pm by Taiidantomcat »
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Offline Maverick

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Re: the "Dump the JSF" (or "alternate NATO fighter aircraft after 2015") GB
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2011, 02:47:09 pm »
If it helps there's quite a few on the theme over on my Photobucket account.

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Mav

Offline lancer

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Re: the "Dump the JSF" (or "alternate NATO fighter aircraft after 2015") GB
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2011, 02:50:33 pm »
Nils, you neglected to mention SU33's and 35's How about navalised T50's?? Or one of my personal favourites the Navalised Typhoon....How about anything new coming down the development pipe?
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Offline ChernayaAkula

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Re: the "Dump the JSF" (or "alternate NATO fighter aircraft after 2015") GB
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2011, 09:15:30 pm »
<...> I might actually go with an F-18H, cover it in sensors and conformal tanks and add a lift fan  :thumbsup:

:lol: I'd maybe not go so far and add a lift fan, but a tricked-out Super Hornet with IRST/DASS-like sensors, CFTs and stealthy weapon pods (as shown HERE), that'd be something!  :thumbsup: And then paint it in "Raptor Sheen" and apply with some ANG decals!  :wacko:
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Offline Weaver

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Re: the "Dump the JSF" (or "alternate NATO fighter aircraft after 2015") GB
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2011, 09:21:22 pm »
Typhoon with 2D thrust vectoring, removed or reduced fin and a diverterless intake?

F-16 Block-100 with similar mods?

On the "never existed" front, how about something P.1216ish as an alternative, lower-risk ASTOVL project?
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Offline Fulcrum

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Re: the "Dump the JSF" (or "alternate NATO fighter aircraft after 2015") GB
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2011, 11:24:44 pm »
Maybe some F-29E Super Fulcrum's?

(If maybe the CIA manages to steal some blueprints(or a Mig-29M prototype) & gives them to any aerospace company to reverse-engineer & modify, with the end result being Mig-29M's with western equipment/technologies with up-to-date weapons like AMRAAM, JDAM, SDB's & AIM-9X's)
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Offline Thorvic

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Re: the "Dump the JSF" (or "alternate NATO fighter aircraft after 2015") GB
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2011, 12:17:35 am »
Only one slight problem with the GB Theme is that the list of alternatives is pretty small. Remember back to the cold war years there used to be lots of interesting designs propossed by various manufacturers that were never built but since the Noughties and the JSF/Typhoon/Rafale/Gripen there are just no new designs being envisioned let alone published.... :banghead:.

It might be better to say Alternative to the F-35 GB to bring in all the ASTOVL designs and next gen fighter designs from the 80's & 90s so as not to limit things to just those current designs that are available today (Ironically we can get kits of most of them baring the F-35A & F-35C as those kits have been delayed like the aircraft they are modeled upon !)

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Offline Taiidantomcat

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Re: the "Dump the JSF" (or "alternate NATO fighter aircraft after 2015") GB
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2011, 01:18:42 am »
Only one slight problem with the GB Theme is that the list of alternatives is pretty small.

The alternatives are fewer in number, but the improvements that would have to be made to reach the JSF standards are where all the whiffy goodness come into play: Like I said a lift fan on an F-18. It has to have STOVL to be an F-35B alternative, etc. So a navalized typhoon for the C, or a Pak Fa for the A model, you could also get really wild:



http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-NOTAM-090209-1.html

you could also do a simple change of scheme, a USAF EF-18G for example.
"Imagination is the one weapon in the war against reality." -Jules de Gaultier

"My model is right! It's the real world that's wrong!" -global warming scientist

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Offline rallymodeller

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Re: the "Dump the JSF" (or "alternate NATO fighter aircraft after 2015") GB
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2011, 02:03:45 am »
Repost time! I've put this up before, but now is a good time to revisit. From the 1990s anime Patlabor:


F-16 Improved Night Falcon (F-16Kai)

Just the idea of X-31-style vectoring paddles on an F-16 is pretty badass, let alone the other stealth goodies.
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Offline Taiidantomcat

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Re: the "Dump the JSF" (or "alternate NATO fighter aircraft after 2015") GB
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2011, 08:13:17 am »
Lets not forget, that like a lot of GBs here, if you can write a good back story and "make it work" for the GB its acceptable. We don't have to be limited to F-18/F-16/Typhoon/Gripen/Fulcrum/Flanker. The last jet that all service used was the F-4 phantom, bring it back!  ;)
"Imagination is the one weapon in the war against reality." -Jules de Gaultier

"My model is right! It's the real world that's wrong!" -global warming scientist

An armor guy, who builds airplanes almost exclusively, that he converts to space fighters-- all while admiring ship models.

Offline McColm

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Re: the "Dump the JSF" (or "alternate NATO fighter aircraft after 2015") GB
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2011, 10:00:34 am »
What about kick starting the YF-23 or the XF-32. I'd also like to see the F-117 B or was it C the proposed RAF version. Is this real world or Whiff world?

Offline TsrJoe

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Re: the "Dump the JSF" (or "alternate NATO fighter aircraft after 2015") GB
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2011, 01:40:27 pm »
a few months ago now i made a few models of possible 'JSF' alternates for a 'Hornet replacement study' based upon John Lacey's (maverick) profiles, for a defence dept colleague, all were plain grey finished 'shapes' to a common scale and notional national markings, there being F.35 Lightning, F.18E Super Hornet, Saab Gripen NG. and Sukhoi T.50 'Fitbird' (ill admit i didnt fully ring the changes to properly represent the F.35A and Gripen NG.) the purpose of the models being to aid a presentation and discussion on the relative merits of the types noted!, unfortunately i havn't been privy to the session outcomes which will no doubt appear at some point

cheers, Joe
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Offline Leading Observer

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Re: the "Dump the JSF" (or "alternate NATO fighter aircraft after 2015") GB
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2011, 03:08:13 pm »
If the JSF is cancelled HM Gov will look just a bit daft with two carriers [wellone in mothballs and one .......in mothballs :banghead:] and definitly no fixed wing aircraft to fly off them. Better start speaking nicely to the French!
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Re: the "Dump the JSF" (or "alternate NATO fighter aircraft after 2015") GB
« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2011, 03:17:53 pm »
If the JSF is cancelled HM Gov will look just a bit daft with two carriers [wellone in mothballs and one .......in mothballs :banghead:] and definitly no fixed wing aircraft to fly off them. Better start speaking nicely to the French!

Like I said above, they could use the FAA Historic Flight, but I'm not sure that two Swordfish, a Firefly, a Sea Fury and a Sea Hawk could be considered a credible force.
Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage

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