Author Topic: Harrier and Sea Harrier  (Read 47306 times)

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Offline Weaver

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Re: Harrier and Sea Harrier
« Reply #285 on: April 14, 2018, 03:56:38 pm »
To use a Jaguar style undercarriage (which is quite bulky when folded) it might be an idea to push the intakes higher up under the wing roots so that the ducts clearly go over the undercarriage bays and then come down to the engines. You could, in fact, make an interesting hybrid by grafting the forward fuselage, wings and tail surfaces from a Harrier onto a Jaguar fuselage. Blending the undersides in would be 'interesting' since the Harrier is rounded while the Jag is notably flat, but hey, that's what putty was invented for, right?

For a design with a single, wide-diameter turbofan, look to the A-7 Corsair or MiG-23.
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Offline kitnut617

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Re: Harrier and Sea Harrier
« Reply #286 on: April 14, 2018, 05:24:42 pm »
Long time ago I had thoughts about how to make a Harrier supersonic. I'd thought about grafting the Jaguar rear underside to it, but I'd have the exhaust nozzles swivel down too, like the F-35 system which was previously envisioned for a number of British STOVL designs.

But I ended up doing it like this.



My lift system is like this, cold air would be redirected bypass air to the two front outlets.



In forward flight, the rear of the aircraft would look like this with the engine working like a regular high bypass engine (one with about 45,000lb of thrust)

« Last Edit: April 14, 2018, 05:28:24 pm by kitnut617 »
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Offline Dizzyfugu

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Re: Harrier and Sea Harrier
« Reply #287 on: April 15, 2018, 12:52:25 am »
Jaguar parts would be my suggestion, too. I've been thinkink about a de-VTOL-ized Harrier for some time, too, but the potential donor kit recently became a Red Arrows member... But from the overall layout I deem the Jaguar to be a valuable donor source, esp. for the tail section and the landing gear, at least the struts and the main bays. Air intakes can be smaller, too, and I thought about MiG-23/27 parts, since their shape and size appear appropriate (just without splitter plates, though).

Offline zenrat

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Re: Harrier and Sea Harrier
« Reply #288 on: April 15, 2018, 04:36:52 am »
...For a design with a single, wide-diameter turbofan, look to the A-7 Corsair or MiG-23.
...I thought about MiG-23/27 parts...

And before reading those (honest), yesterday I added to my Model Expo want list "MiG 23/27 parts donor for Harrier B (Academy?)"
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Offline Weaver

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Re: Harrier and Sea Harrier
« Reply #289 on: June 15, 2018, 04:49:40 pm »
Next-gen Harrier drawings posted on Twitter by aviation author Rowland White:






Original post: https://twitter.com/RowlandWhite/status/1007673628933095424
Rowland White's Twitter (which is very much worth following): @RowlandWhite
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Offline zenrat

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Re: Harrier and Sea Harrier
« Reply #290 on: June 15, 2018, 05:40:00 pm »
Very interesting...

I am thinking of making a Harrier B (non VTOL) one of my RAF GB builds.  I have all the parts I need now.
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Offline PR19_Kit

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Re: Harrier and Sea Harrier
« Reply #291 on: June 15, 2018, 09:42:54 pm »
I wouldn't be too enthusiastic about flying the first one, those rear under fuselage bombs are VERY close to the hot exhausts!  :o

The hybrid Harrier/Typhoon, the 2nd one, looks very interesting and modellable too.  :thumbsup:

Maybe it's a hybrid Harrier/EFA though, and I have a Pegasus EFA kit...........  ;D
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Offline Weaver

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Re: Harrier and Sea Harrier
« Reply #292 on: June 16, 2018, 03:26:14 am »
I wouldn't be too enthusiastic about flying the first one, those rear under fuselage bombs are VERY close to the hot exhausts!  :o

The hybrid Harrier/Typhoon, the 2nd one, looks very interesting and modellable too.  :thumbsup:

Maybe it's a hybrid Harrier/EFA though, and I have a Pegasus EFA kit...........  ;D

I think the P112 uses a scheme called RALS: Remote Augmented Lift System. Basically, bleed air from the compressor is ducted forwards then exhausted downwards through an afterburning nozzle. Upside: lighter than a fan or lift engine. Downside: high-energy vertical exhaust.
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Offline PR19_Kit

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Re: Harrier and Sea Harrier
« Reply #293 on: June 16, 2018, 02:16:30 pm »

I think the P112 uses a scheme called RALS: Remote Augmented Lift System. Basically, bleed air from the compressor is ducted forwards then exhausted downwards through an afterburning nozzle. Upside: lighter than a fan
or lift engine. Downside: high-energy vertical exhaust.


It seems to have its exhaust nozzles a long way aft of the CG. Surely that would make VTOL a tad difficult?
Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings

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Offline Weaver

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Re: Harrier and Sea Harrier
« Reply #294 on: June 16, 2018, 07:28:46 pm »

I think the P112 uses a scheme called RALS: Remote Augmented Lift System. Basically, bleed air from the compressor is ducted forwards then exhausted downwards through an afterburning nozzle. Upside: lighter than a fan
or lift engine. Downside: high-energy vertical exhaust.


It seems to have its exhaust nozzles a long way aft of the CG. Surely that would make VTOL a tad difficult?

There are two ducts running from just behind the compressor, over the top of the engine, that connect to a vertical nozzle or nozzles just behind the cockpit. The nozzle(s) look like the might have variable area, which what made me think of RALS.

Can't find a decent-size graphic so this will have to do:

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Offline PR19_Kit

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Re: Harrier and Sea Harrier
« Reply #295 on: June 16, 2018, 11:27:26 pm »
Ah yes, thanks. I see it now, and that makes much more sense.  :thumbsup:
Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

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Offline kitnut617

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Re: Harrier and Sea Harrier
« Reply #296 on: June 17, 2018, 04:24:30 am »
That's basically how the system I'm using in my model works (see reply 287), only I'm using the cold air too in forward flight (low bypass ratio), although I'm only using cold air in the forward ducts (like on a Harrier) instead of reheat.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2018, 04:27:26 am by kitnut617 »
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