Author Topic: De Havilland Mosquito  (Read 82978 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Daryl J.

  • Needs A Life Outside What-If
  • *****
  • Posts: 2946
  • This is the Age of Imaginarius
De Havilland Mosquito
« on: January 07, 2004, 09:23:39 am »
Since we're all snowed in today up in the Pacific Northwest, how about having some fun w/ our (fertile) imaginations.

How about a What-if 1/48 Mosquito. Kitbashing, chopping, and channeling are preferred. This is based on my deeply disappointing Airfix PR.XVI that just may be unbuildable save for the complete -VI included. That leaves the fuselage as a starting point.

My ideas:
Bomber fuselage.
Wings similar to the Hornet
Twin gas-turbines w/ contraprops-3 blades
ASW in Luftwaffe (post-war)markings. Appropriate antennae
Grey over Sky

And you?

Daryl J.

 

Offline elmayerle

  • What-IF SIG
  • Needs A Life Outside What-If
  • *****
  • Posts: 6366
Re: De Havilland Mosquito
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2004, 09:36:09 am »
Well, there was that article that came out 34 or so years ago on kitbashing a Hornet from a Mosquito.  I'd probably put in Napier Sabres or R-R Griffons with contraprops.  If you want something hideously over-powered, use a pair of the engines from a P-3 and use much of the nacelles, too.
"Reality is the leading cause of stress amongst those in touch with it."
--Jane Wagner and Lily Tomlin

Offline Daryl J.

  • Needs A Life Outside What-If
  • *****
  • Posts: 2946
  • This is the Age of Imaginarius
Re: De Havilland Mosquito
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2004, 02:34:41 pm »
Ski-equipped Mosquito?

Would that be the Icequito?  Russquito?   :lol:  :lol:

Then we could endlessly debate whether it is white, off-white, greyish off-white, fawnish off-white, off-white with a slight bluish overtone, off-white that looks like massively lightened sky (or would that be duck-egg blue)?????

Daryl

 

Offline Captain Canada

  • "but this time it's different. I was drunk when I agreed to it."
  • Needs A Life Outside What-If
  • *****
  • Posts: 28597
Re: De Havilland Mosquito
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2004, 04:55:13 pm »
Mmmmm

a post-war Kreigsmarine Mossie with turbines sounds sweet !

Go for it ! Move ahead !

 B)  :ar:  
CANADA KICKS arse !!!!

Long Live the Commonwealth !!!
Vive les Canadiens !
Where's my beer ?

Offline Supertom

  • Waiting on bits to show up in the mail
  • Administrator
  • Needs A Life Outside What-If
  • *****
  • Posts: 3261
  • I miss my Bovril.
Re: De Havilland Mosquito
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2004, 05:30:25 pm »
Hey Daryl,

Would it be possible to just slap it together real quick with masking tape and whatnot and take a picture of it for me?  I'm not sure exactly what the issue is.
"We can resolve this over tea and fisticuffs!!!"

Offline Daryl J.

  • Needs A Life Outside What-If
  • *****
  • Posts: 2946
  • This is the Age of Imaginarius
Re: De Havilland Mosquito
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2004, 06:45:38 pm »
Tom,

This kit, besides the new 1/48 AV-8B, is The One I've been waiting for for a decade.  So I bought two PR.XVI's sight unseen.

The issue is with the fuselage-to-wing fit.

It just may be nigh unto unbuildable due to a rather huge discrepancy in the bomber fuselage and the already existing fighter fuselage.   The trenches, misplaced panel lines don't bother me a whit but......

When the wings are put in the slot as moulded, they sit at a near-10 degree anhedral.   Also, there is nearly a 3mm gap in the leading edge of the wing-root that goes beyond the fill-and-forget type of repair.

The original fuselage in cross-section, for visualization purposes, is like an "O".
The bomber (new) fuselage' cross-section is like an "0".   In otherwords, the wings and the fuselage aren't made for each other.    Grafting the bomber nose onto the FB.VI fuselage would be difficult due to their difference in X-section.  Also, that complicates the fit of the inner, lower wing.   You'd have to see a picture.

If I can find some masking tape, I'll photograph the problem and send copies to you.

Since the nacelles are *very* close to Tamiya's, I'm simply going to amputate the requisite parts and transplant them onto the Tamiya PR.IV.   That will leave a complete old-issue Airfix Mossie...not a bad thing at all... and a fuselage for what-iffing; hence the origin of this thread.  Perhaps this will lead to the Russian-flown Icequito.????  :wacko:  :wacko:  :wacko:

Given the tight purse model companies are using, this *has* to have the good folks at Airfix steaming.    A retool of the fuselage is in order at a minimum.

I *hate* raining on a new release' parade but that's just facts..........................

Daryl J., who'll get a PR.XVI or two built yet.

Offline Daryl J.

  • Needs A Life Outside What-If
  • *****
  • Posts: 2946
  • This is the Age of Imaginarius
Re: De Havilland Mosquito
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2004, 09:21:35 pm »
Some better news on the Airfix kit.

My second one doesn't seem to have nearly as bad of a problem.   Perhaps it's just an isolated incident.    

Daryl (with fingers crossed)
 

Offline nev

  • What-IF SIG
  • Needs A Life Outside What-If
  • *****
  • Posts: 12406
Re: De Havilland Mosquito
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2004, 01:14:11 pm »
On the decal sheet that just arrived today, is included a gorgeous PR.34 in Aluminium/PRU Blue  :wub:

How would I go about making one of these in 1/48?  From my limited knowledge of the Mossie, it has 2 stage engines & the bulged bomb/camera bay.  Can I just stick the two stage merlins from the Airfix NFXXX onto the Airfix PR.XVI or is it more complicated than that?
Between almost-true and completely-crazy, there is a rainbow of nice shades - Tophe


Sales of Airfix kits plummeted in the 1980s, and GCSEs had to be made easier as a result - James May

Offline nev

  • What-IF SIG
  • Needs A Life Outside What-If
  • *****
  • Posts: 12406
Re: De Havilland Mosquito
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2004, 01:17:19 pm »
For my FB.VI which I shall start in the next couple of days, I am unsure about which props to use.  The Tamiya kit has 2 types, one with thin blades, one with fat.  Looking at the few piccies of Far East Aluminium painted Mosquitos that I have, it seems that FB.VI's carried both types, unless my eyes deceive me.  Can anyone clear this up? (Lee I'm looking in you direction  :P  )
Between almost-true and completely-crazy, there is a rainbow of nice shades - Tophe


Sales of Airfix kits plummeted in the 1980s, and GCSEs had to be made easier as a result - James May

Offline GeorgeC

  • Makes own decals
  • ***
  • Posts: 514
    • http://
Re: De Havilland Mosquito
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2006, 03:03:34 pm »
Archibald's post on the Breguet has reminded me of a reference I thought I had read (but for the life of me I can't remember where) about a 4-engined, Mosquito-like project studied by DH mid war.  I think there may even have been a model at Hatfield at some point in time.  I know the DH98 (?) was a 'Super Mosquito' which eventually was realised by more powerful Merlins and the buldged bomb bays of the later marks, but has anyone else come across such a fast, unarmed, 4-engine-bomber project?  

Regards  

GeorgeC

Offline joncarrfarrelly

  • Bertie Bassett
  • What-IF SIG
  • Needs A Life Outside What-If
  • *****
  • Posts: 6799
  • Turn that Gila-copter down!
Re: De Havilland Mosquito
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2006, 11:04:06 pm »
Two proposals made by De Havilland to the RAF are mentioned in Tony Buttler's British Secret Projects: Fighters & Bombers 1935-1950, the first was for a four Merlin powered Mosquito development and then in 1941 for a high-speed unarmed night bomber in the 46,000 lb weight category...Buttler believes that both proposals refer to the same design. He also states that it is known that a general arrangement drawing was made but that so far a copy hasn't turned up.

So if Buttler is correct we have 4 Merlins and an all-up weight of 46,000 lbs, if we give it empty-vs-loaded numbers similar to the B. Mk. IV and allow for weight creep due to increased size (still much lighter than a Lanc or Halibag)...so 29,000 lb empty with a wingspan between 88' and 90' and fuselage length somewhere between 65' and 70'.

Cheers, Jon
« Last Edit: June 28, 2006, 11:06:09 pm by joncarrfarrelly »
"Evil our grandsires were, our fathers worse;
And we, till now unmatched in ill,
Must leave successors more corrupted still."
Horace, 65BC - 8BC. Marsh translation.

Offline Archibald

  • Needs A Life Outside What-If
  • *****
  • Posts: 4984
Re: De Havilland Mosquito
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2006, 11:36:09 pm »
Sorry to hijack the thread a bit...
The Bloch (future Dassault) MB-174 was really the French Mosquito, a nightmare for the Luftwaffe (at 545 km/h, it was nearly as fast as a 109E).
A four engined version was planned, the MB-140. Quite paradoxically, the 4-engine was better than the 2-engine variant so speed and weapon load were even better!
The MB-140 was to fly at 600 km/h with 3000kg of bombs, over 2500 km. Building of the first prototype   was speed up  at the outbreak of WWII, but it was still unfinished in june 1940. The plane was so powerfull that everything was destroyed, to avoid falling in German hands... this plane has become a myth since then...  
King Arthur: Can we come up and have a look?
French Soldier: Of course not. You're English types.
King Arthur: What are you then?
French Soldier: I'm French. Why do you think I have this outrageous accent, you silly king?

Well regardless I would rather take my chance out there on the ocean, that to stay here and die on this poo-hole island spending the rest of my life talking to a gosh darn VOLLEYBALL.

Offline GeorgeC

  • Makes own decals
  • ***
  • Posts: 514
    • http://
Re: De Havilland Mosquito
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2006, 07:08:26 am »
Thanks Jon, I haven't got a copy of that Buttler book (yet).  I still wonder where I picked up the original reference.  The weights and dimentions you quoted bear an interesting comparison to the Canberra.  I wonder...

Regards

GeorgeC    

Offline joncarrfarrelly

  • Bertie Bassett
  • What-IF SIG
  • Needs A Life Outside What-If
  • *****
  • Posts: 6799
  • Turn that Gila-copter down!
Re: De Havilland Mosquito
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2006, 10:19:42 pm »
Quote
I would be interested in seeing some kind of reference drawing to get an idea of what design was supposed to look like.  If anyone has the means to transmit electronically to me a three view drawing or whatever is available, I would be most grateful.  

I am seeing something in my mind at the moment that could be created by using a pair of 1/48th scale Mosquito kits and the older Revell 1/32nd scale Mosquito fuselage for a sized up fuselage with greater wing span and maybe the addition of the engines from a Lancaster.  

Hmmmmm, now that the cost of creating it has gone up, perhaps rethinking this to a scale that is more affordable is better using the 1/72nd scale Mosquito offerings with the fuselage of a 1/48th scale Mosquito and the engines/nacelles from a 1/72nd scale Lancaster to obtain the larger fuselage, greater wing span, and retain the overall shape and appearance of the original Mosquito lines.  Of course the 1/72nd scale cockpit/windscreen/canopy would have to be retained and grafted on to the 1/48th scale fuselage to keep it in perspective.  

Anyone care to give feedback?
Hi Jeffrey,
as I mentioned in my previous post Tony Buttler and others have been searching for the 46,000 lb Mossie GA drawing that DeHavillands are known to have produced...they've had no luck so far.

As to the Sabre Mossie here is a side-view drawing I've posted previously that was printed in an Air Britain quarterly last year,
and Aircraft A was a jet-powered Mossie.

 Note that while both of these were larger than the Mossie it was only be  matter of a few feet in wingspan and length and as such are much smaller than the 4 Merlin 46,000lb night-bomber.

I'd say that your concept of using a 1/48th Mossie to build a 1/72 model of the night-bomber is spot on as a 1/48th kit of any given subject is 1.5 times larger than the same aircraft in 1/72.
A 1/48th scale Mossie would give, in 1/72nd scale, a bomber with a wingspan around 81' 3" and a length around 60' 9"...a little smaller than my WAG dimensions made using peformance figures as a scaling factor, but close enough for guvment work.

As a suggestion I'd go with your plan of  the wings and fuselage from the 1/48th Mossie, but modify  the engine nacelles from two 1/72nd scale Mossies rather than use Lancaster nacelles as De Havillands would not have been happy with something as lumpy looking as the AVRO nacelles.  :D

Cheers, Jon
« Last Edit: November 09, 2010, 03:17:59 pm by joncarrfarrelly »
"Evil our grandsires were, our fathers worse;
And we, till now unmatched in ill,
Must leave successors more corrupted still."
Horace, 65BC - 8BC. Marsh translation.

Offline joncarrfarrelly

  • Bertie Bassett
  • What-IF SIG
  • Needs A Life Outside What-If
  • *****
  • Posts: 6799
  • Turn that Gila-copter down!
Re: De Havilland Mosquito
« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2006, 12:42:34 am »
OK using Jeffrey's notion as starting point here's a first stab at a 4-engined Mossie bomber.

Note that along with using Mossie style canopy, engine nacelles and radiator assemblies I also ended up reducing the wing chord of the design by scaling the wingtips down by the same factor as the engines and canopy and then moved the trailing edge up to match.

The proportions of the flaps, ailerons, trimtabs etcetera also need modifying.

I'll be working up the other views over the next few days.

Cheers, Jon

« Last Edit: April 19, 2011, 12:55:34 pm by joncarrfarrelly »
"Evil our grandsires were, our fathers worse;
And we, till now unmatched in ill,
Must leave successors more corrupted still."
Horace, 65BC - 8BC. Marsh translation.