Author Topic: Aoshima  (Read 7974 times)

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Offline GTX

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Aoshima
« Reply #30 on: December 13, 2010, 11:37:19 pm »
Quote
You just choose not to use them and and such wont fit a ski-jump,

Actually, as I understand it, the Canberra class will have the ski-jumps fitted.

Regards,

Greg
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Offline Thorvic

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Aoshima
« Reply #31 on: December 14, 2010, 04:52:06 am »
Quote
You just choose not to use them and and such wont fit a ski-jump,

Actually, as I understand it, the Canberra class will have the ski-jumps fitted.

Regards,

Greg

Now that does seem daft if the Australian Armed forces don't intend to use STOVL aircraft as it does occupy space that could be better used for helo launch & recovery (as per USN Wasp class - which do infact operate STOVL aircraft.... :banghead:).

Unless of course that means the Australian Armed forces do think they may procure/lease STOVL aircraft once the Canberras are in service ? :-\.

Now what we really need is for somebody to do a kit of the Juan Carlos/Canberra class  ;D
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Offline anthonyp

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Aoshima
« Reply #32 on: December 14, 2010, 08:01:01 pm »
Quote
You just choose not to use them and and such wont fit a ski-jump,

Actually, as I understand it, the Canberra class will have the ski-jumps fitted.

Regards,

Greg

Now that does seem daft if the Australian Armed forces don't intend to use STOVL aircraft as it does occupy space that could be better used for helo launch & recovery (as per USN Wasp class - which do infact operate STOVL aircraft.... :banghead:).

Unless of course that means the Australian Armed forces do think they may procure/lease STOVL aircraft once the Canberras are in service ? :-\.

Now what we really need is for somebody to do a kit of the Juan Carlos/Canberra class  ;D

That, and re-engineering the hull would have cost more than they wanted to spend.  They've always had their eye on renewing a naval air component, but haven't had the money.  The Juan Carlos I class offered good growth for the future, should they pursue the F-35B eventually.
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Offline rickshaw

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Aoshima
« Reply #33 on: December 14, 2010, 08:22:01 pm »
One thing I've never quite understood is why no one has designed a flightdeck with an elevating ski-jump.  It would allow the use of either choppers or STOVL aircraft without too much trouble.  You could also alter the angle of the ski-jump, allowing CTOL aircraft to utilise it.  It wouldn't take much to put a couple of hefty hydraulic rams and some hinges onto the flight deck to make it work.

The CANBERRA class will be fitted with a fixed ski-jump.  It was cheaper to accept them with than to have them built without.  Artist's impression:



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Offline anthonyp

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Aoshima
« Reply #34 on: December 14, 2010, 08:59:17 pm »
One thing I've never quite understood is why no one has designed a flightdeck with an elevating ski-jump.  It would allow the use of either choppers or STOVL aircraft without too much trouble.  You could also alter the angle of the ski-jump, allowing CTOL aircraft to utilise it.  It wouldn't take much to put a couple of hefty hydraulic rams and some hinges onto the flight deck to make it work.


Over-engineering.  That's why.  The cost of a variable ski-jump on a carrier would add a lot to the cost.  Even though the solution might seem simple, defense engineering teams would guarantee it would cost more than common sense should say.

Back to the thread (before I split it), me want Aoshima Hyuga models!!!!!!!!
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Offline GTX

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Aoshima
« Reply #35 on: December 14, 2010, 11:33:33 pm »
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Unless of course that means the Australian Armed forces do think they may procure/lease STOVL aircraft once the Canberras are in service ? Undecided

Maybe... :rolleyes:.  There is also the ability to allow allied nations' (say USMC) aircraft to use it.

Quote
re-engineering the hull would have cost more than they wanted to spend.

Spot on!

Quote
The cost of a variable ski-jump on a carrier would add a lot to the cost.

Correct again + how often would it really be used (i.e.angle changed)?  Would this justify the extra complexity/cost?

Regards,

Greg
« Last Edit: December 14, 2010, 11:36:48 pm by GTX »
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Offline PR19_Kit

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Aoshima
« Reply #36 on: December 15, 2010, 12:50:16 am »
The world's very first ski-jump, the land based one at RAE Bedford, was built with a variable angle capability to see how the concept worked with various setting. As I recall the three Invincible class 'carriers' had three different angles to their jumps at one stage in their history.

I can't imagine it would cost THAT much to add it to a ship, unless of course the Government concerned had the same value judgement as a banker....
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Offline rickshaw

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Aoshima
« Reply #37 on: December 15, 2010, 02:58:10 am »
If the variable ramp had say three settings - down, half-way and up, and gave back, at the down position an extra landing spot for choppers while giving the ship the ability to launch aircraft when required at the two raised positions (half-way for propeller driven AEW/COD, fully up for jet aircraft), I think it would be good value for money.  Its utility would outweigh the costs IMHO.

As Kit has mentioned, in the early days they experimented.  At one point IIRC they even developed a ski-ramp for land use utilising bridging components. 
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Offline GTX

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Aoshima
« Reply #38 on: December 17, 2010, 10:26:42 am »
The world's very first ski-jump, the land based one at RAE Bedford, was built with a variable angle capability to see how the concept worked with various setting. As I recall the three Invincible class 'carriers' had three different angles to their jumps at one stage in their history.

I can't imagine it would cost THAT much to add it to a ship, unless of course the Government concerned had the same value judgement as a banker....

A land based one used for R&D is a totally different proposition to an actual operational ship based one.   Think of the changes to ship structure to deal with differing loads, the need for machinery (which also needs to be maintained!)...all for something that will confer minimal extra benefit.  And what happens if it jams in a position you don't want it?  I seriously doubt anyone could mount a justifiable argument for doing it.

Regards,

Greg
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Offline Weaver

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Re: Aoshima
« Reply #39 on: December 25, 2013, 03:56:16 am »
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Offline kitbasher

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Re: Aoshima
« Reply #40 on: December 25, 2013, 04:20:22 am »
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Offline Captain Canada

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Re: Aoshima
« Reply #41 on: December 25, 2013, 06:56:31 am »
It look asymmetric as well.....where's Tophe ?

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Offline PR19_Kit

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Re: Aoshima
« Reply #42 on: December 25, 2013, 11:12:18 am »
As Kit has mentioned, in the early days they experimented.  At one point IIRC they even developed a ski-ramp for land use utilising bridging components. 

In passing I've found out recently that that work was carried out right here in Lydney! Mabey and Johnson, the manufacturers of the current British Army and US Army bridging systems, did the work and there's a faded photo of the ramp on their walls, not 2 miles from my house. The thing was then re-built at RAE Bedford but I can't find out if it replaced the ski-jump that John Farley used or was in addition to it.
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Offline Weaver

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Re: Aoshima
« Reply #43 on: December 26, 2013, 03:43:46 am »
It look asymmetric as well.....where's Tophe ?

 :tornado:

It's not asymetric:




My first thought was that you could make it into a more real world design with a real canopy and a T-tail for effective elevators, but now I look at it from this angle, I realise that the trailing edge is thick and square cut.

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Offline Captain Canada

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Re: Aoshima
« Reply #44 on: December 26, 2013, 01:01:39 pm »
Ahh...the tips are folded down ! Neat stuff ! There were some giant aeroplanes like that in the Ace Combat series of games. Always neat to see, but too easy to shoot down  :thumbsup:
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