Author Topic: Gun equipped Tank Hunters: Hetzer, Elefant, Kanone and so many more ...  (Read 13271 times)

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Offline GTX

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Re: Gun equipped Tank Hunters: Hetzer, Elefant, Kanone and so many more ...
« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2010, 11:15:17 pm »
<...> could also mount a howitzer turret instead, too.

I'm pretty sure Greg did a profile of one of those, but I can't find it at the moment.

I did this crude one a while ago:



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Greg
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Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: Gun equipped Tank Hunters: Hetzer, Elefant, Kanone and so many more ...
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2010, 11:39:46 am »
^^^^^
Where can I find this kind of drawings? to work with?

BTW I have found in Panzer Tacts vol 20-1 a Porsche design formed by Elefant hull and King Tiger turret (Porsche type). I want it :banghead: :thumbsup:

note: image was taken in the internet.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2010, 07:53:31 am by ysi_maniac »
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Offline GTX

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Re: Gun equipped Tank Hunters: Hetzer, Elefant, Kanone and so many more ...
« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2010, 11:47:10 am »
^^^^^
Where can I find this kind of drawings? to work with?


What exactly are you after?

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Greg
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Offline joncarrfarrelly

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Re: Gun equipped Tank Hunters: Hetzer, Elefant, Kanone and so many more ...
« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2010, 12:50:38 pm »
^^^^^
Where can I find this kind of drawings? to work with?

BTW I have found in Panzer Tacts vol 20-1 a Porsche design formed by Elefant hull and King Tiger turret (Porsche type). I want it :banghead: :thumbsup:

note: image was taken in the internet.

This guy also wanted it, so he built it.  ;D


Technically speaking its not so much an Elefant hull as it is another development of the VK4501(P) project,
Porsche's unsuccessful competitor for the original Tiger.

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Offline GTX

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Re: Gun equipped Tank Hunters: Hetzer, Elefant, Kanone and so many more ...
« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2010, 02:19:03 pm »

^^^^^
Where can I find this kind of drawings? to work with?


Does this help:



Can also email you high rez versions.

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Greg
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Offline rickshaw

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Re: Gun equipped Tank Hunters: Hetzer, Elefant, Kanone and so many more ...
« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2010, 09:14:42 pm »
Now, for something completely different.  The Recoilless Rifle equipped tank destroy concept.  Of course, I assume we are all familiar with the M-50 Ontos.  "Onto" BTW, is Greek for "thing", perhaps one of the more aptly names utilised for a military vehicle, I believe:



However, several nations experimented with or even adapted the Recoilless rifle for use in a "tank destroyer" like vehicle (ie armoured, rather than soft-skin).  The Japanese had a stab at it with their Type 60 Tank Destroyer which mounted two 106mm recoilless rifles:



M113 has had Recoillless Rifles mounted on it of various calibres from 57mm to 120mm.  However, they were intended more for general support work than specifically as Tank Destroyers.  CETME from Spain, produces a twin 106mm RCL equipped cupola, just for that purpose:




However it still has to be reloaded from outside, as do most RCLs.

Now, the use of multiple recoilless rifles was to overcome one of the big problems associated with the use of RCL - their slow reloading time and the exposure of the loader(s) while it was being done.   Both the US and the UK however experimented with automatically reloading RCLs.  The US actually to the point of near deployment, on the T-114 Light Reconnaissance Vehicle:





What was unusual about this method of reloading was that the entire gun tube slid forwards and a round would then slide into place behind it and the tube slide back, chambering the round. The magazine was also on the right side of the weapon (on the far side from the turret) and loaded from the left, turret side.  It's magazine held three rounds.  Spent cases were ejected to the rear.  Interestingly, a variation of this method was developed for use on the OV-10 Bronco:



The UK's 120mm autoloaded RCL OTOH, utilised I understand a revolver chamber (much easier when using the Rheinmetall frangible base rounds, compared to the US's frangible walled rounds).  A method which was revived for the 30mm RCL autocannot the Germans developed.   Unfortunately, I've never seen any pictures of the autoloader for the 120mm RCL, only read descriptions.

Now, we all know that the RCL was quickly superseded by the ATGW.  However, imagine a world where the ATGW's numerous problems proved too difficult (and expensive) to fix.  Where the RCL remained king....

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Offline JoeP

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Re: Gun equipped Tank Hunters: Hetzer, Elefant, Kanone and so many more ...
« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2010, 07:22:55 pm »
What about arming it with some reloadable panzerschreks? Perhaps two mounted to either side of a shield, and the crew reloads the tubes from behind the shield.
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Offline rickshaw

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Re: Gun equipped Tank Hunters: Hetzer, Elefant, Kanone and so many more ...
« Reply #22 on: March 08, 2010, 12:54:42 am »
What about arming it with some reloadable panzerschreks? Perhaps two mounted to either side of a shield, and the crew reloads the tubes from behind the shield.

Panzerschrecks are not guns.  They are rocket launchers and therefore lie outside the scope of the thread, I think.  Recoilless Rifles, OTOH are guns.
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Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: Gun equipped Tank Hunters: Hetzer, Elefant, Kanone and so many more ...
« Reply #23 on: March 08, 2010, 07:10:42 am »

^^^^^
Where can I find this kind of drawings? to work with?


Does this help:



Can also email you high rez versions.

Regards,

Greg


Thanks Greg, I do not need hi res pics because I am not a designer, I just was looking for a site with several AFV profiles. Thank you anyway. :thumbsup:
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Offline Weaver

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Re: Gun equipped Tank Hunters: Hetzer, Elefant, Kanone and so many more ...
« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2010, 08:32:24 am »
Just for completeness sake, the Czech OT-62 (licence-built BTR-50 with a bigger engine and side doors) had a neat little one-man MG turret with an external clamp for an 82mm Tarasnice RR that elevated with the gun. It still had to be loaded externally, of course.
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Offline Jschmus

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Re: Gun equipped Tank Hunters: Hetzer, Elefant, Kanone and so many more ...
« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2010, 02:05:15 pm »
The things one finds whilst poking around Wikipedia: a prototype wheeled vehicle developed during WWII, in the US:

The T55E1 Motor Carriage


Quote
The T55E1 Motor Carriage was a prototype  vehicle developed by the Allied Machinery Manufacturing Company in 1943 for the US Army. On eight heavy duty tires, the T55E1 was armed with one three-inch gun and a supporting .50 caliber machine gun and powered by two water-cooled Cadillac 8-cylinder engines. Production began in 1943, however by this time preference had shifted to anti-tank vehicles, and the T55E1 was canceled.

So, not a tank destroyer per se, but along the same lines, and definitely could have been employed that way.
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Offline GTX

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Re: Gun equipped Tank Hunters: Hetzer, Elefant, Kanone and so many more ...
« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2010, 02:33:16 pm »
More of the T55E1:



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Greg
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Offline rickshaw

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Re: Gun equipped Tank Hunters: Hetzer, Elefant, Kanone and so many more ...
« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2010, 08:06:09 pm »
IIRC T55e1 utilised chain drive.   Not unusual in that time period but I suspect one of the biggest AFVs to do so.
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Offline dy031101

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M3 Scout Car What-if?
« Reply #28 on: August 06, 2010, 05:41:50 pm »
Seeing the M3 Halftrack is used to carry a quite wide variety of weapons and utilizes components (to say the least) from the M3 all-wheeled Scout Car...... I kinda wonder if the M3 Scout Car could at least have been capable of carrying a 57mm/6-pounder and later the French 90mm gun......
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Offline joncarrfarrelly

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Re: M3 Scout Car What-if?
« Reply #29 on: August 06, 2010, 09:36:25 pm »
Seeing the M3 Halftrack is used to carry a quite wide variety of weapons and utilizes components (to say the least) from the M3 all-wheeled Scout Car...... I kinda wonder if the M3 Scout Car could at least have been capable of carrying a 57mm/6-pounder and later the French 90mm gun......

Not and retain any sort of cross-country ability, the M3 didn't exactly have a surplus of horsepower.
The tests of the 37mm mount didn't result in a production vehicle because of excessive weight and
high silhouette.
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And we, till now unmatched in ill,
Must leave successors more corrupted still."
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