Author Topic: Carl Gustav 84mm Recoilless Rifle  (Read 11553 times)

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Offline Weaver

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Re: Carl Gustav 84mm Recoilless Rifle
« Reply #60 on: June 05, 2016, 12:47:06 pm »
Yes but the Falklands was a weird one-off in the eyes of the planners. WWIII in Europe was still the main thrust of planning/procurement.
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Offline DarrenP2

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Re: Carl Gustav 84mm Recoilless Rifle
« Reply #61 on: June 06, 2016, 10:38:46 am »
Yes but the Falklands was a weird one-off in the eyes of the planners. WWIII in Europe was still the main thrust of planning/procurement.

yeap it justified allot of what you see trying to be corrected today. But if we'd had the same mentality of equipping our armed forces for the operation we were fighting as opposed to general war the task force would have landed in San Carlos with VPK landrovers and Pigs and carrying baton guns and truncheons.

Offline rickshaw

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Re: Carl Gustav 84mm Recoilless Rifle
« Reply #62 on: June 06, 2016, 04:54:38 pm »
Yes but the Falklands was a weird one-off in the eyes of the planners. WWIII in Europe was still the main thrust of planning/procurement.

The same could be said for most military forces throughout history.

The Americans in Vietnam were still taught that the "real war" would be in Europe and be of the "big battalions" as Napoleon termed it.   Vietnam was seen as a temporary abberation, nothing more.   On Australia and New Zealand went in to fight a counter-insurgency war.  The ROK troops just killed everybody who looked at them in a funny way (which was rumoured to be basically everybody).    The Thais hated the Vietnamese and their battalion wasn't much use.
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Offline Old Wombat

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Re: Carl Gustav 84mm Recoilless Rifle
« Reply #63 on: June 07, 2016, 12:43:21 am »
Because we'd had experience with it in Malaya, which the Americans hadn't, & many of our officers & NCO's were veterans of that conflict.

I was watching a program some time around ANZAC Day about the Australian Army Training Team Vietnam (AATTV). The vet's were pointing out they had come with this experience & knowledge but the US command didn't really want to know about it, while the ARVN troops soaked it up.

What the ARVN lacked was a command that was separate from politics & free of rampant corruption.

US command only belatedly realised what it had been missing out on for US troops with the AATTV.
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Offline zenrat

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Re: Carl Gustav 84mm Recoilless Rifle
« Reply #64 on: June 07, 2016, 03:16:43 am »
Because we'd had experience with it in Malaya, which the Americans hadn't, & many of our officers & NCO's were veterans of that conflict.

I was watching a program some time around ANZAC Day about the Australian Army Training Team Vietnam (AATTV). The vet's were pointing out they had come with this experience & knowledge but the US command didn't really want to know about it, while the ARVN troops soaked it up.

What the ARVN lacked was a command that was separate from politics & free of rampant corruption.

US command only belatedly realised what it had been missing out on for US troops with the AATTV.

I saw that show.  It's worth seeking out on the interweb.
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Offline DarrenP2

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Re: Carl Gustav 84mm Recoilless Rifle
« Reply #65 on: June 07, 2016, 05:55:33 am »
Because we'd had experience with it in Malaya, which the Americans hadn't, & many of our officers & NCO's were veterans of that conflict.

I was watching a program some time around ANZAC Day about the Australian Army Training Team Vietnam (AATTV). The vet's were pointing out they had come with this experience & knowledge but the US command didn't really want to know about it, while the ARVN troops soaked it up.

What the ARVN lacked was a command that was separate from politics & free of rampant corruption.

US command only belatedly realised what it had been missing out on for US troops with the AATTV.

and more recent experience from Borneo as well

Offline rickshaw

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Re: Carl Gustav 84mm Recoilless Rifle
« Reply #66 on: June 07, 2016, 07:41:53 pm »
Because we'd had experience with it in Malaya, which the Americans hadn't, & many of our officers & NCO's were veterans of that conflict.

I was watching a program some time around ANZAC Day about the Australian Army Training Team Vietnam (AATTV). The vet's were pointing out they had come with this experience & knowledge but the US command didn't really want to know about it, while the ARVN troops soaked it up.

What the ARVN lacked was a command that was separate from politics & free of rampant corruption.

US command only belatedly realised what it had been missing out on for US troops with the AATTV.

and more recent experience from Borneo as well

Borneo was near-simulteanous with our initial deployment to South Vietnam.  Indeed the stretching of the ADF which occurred was such that we re-introduced Conscription - much to the regret of the ADF and the Australian people - and if anything was to force the end of the Conservative Government in 1972 was their going against the time honored tradition that we do not compel our citizens to fight overseas, unless the situation is perceived to be existential to the nation.  The result was civil unrest and a perception that the state was exceeding its mandate from the people, with the result that by 1969, there were Moratorium marches in all the capital cities with over 100,000 marchers and the Government of the day discovered just how unpopular their policies were (considering our population was only about 12 million at the time, it was a big slice of the population which marched).

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Offline DarrenP2

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Re: Carl Gustav 84mm Recoilless Rifle
« Reply #67 on: June 09, 2016, 02:44:53 pm »
when did the UK first Introduce the L14 Carl Gustav?

Offline Weaver

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Re: Carl Gustav 84mm Recoilless Rifle
« Reply #68 on: June 09, 2016, 03:55:07 pm »
when did the UK first Introduce the L14 Carl Gustav?

Wiki says 1970s but doesn't give exact date.
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Offline rickshaw

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Re: Carl Gustav 84mm Recoilless Rifle
« Reply #69 on: June 09, 2016, 10:07:07 pm »
when did the UK first Introduce the L14 Carl Gustav?

Wiki says 1970s but doesn't give exact date.

I suspect it was in use on a trials basis by the late 1960s.  The ADF adopted it in 1965 so I can't imagine them doing that well before the UK Army did.  We nearly took it to Vietnam but the Swedes scotched that idea by stating they'd stop it by not exporting ammunition downunder.  It left a bad taste in the ADF's mouth and nowadays they make sure they manufacture all ammunition when they adopt a new weapon.
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