Author Topic: Never Retired  (Read 34068 times)

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Offline Weaver

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Re: Never Retired
« Reply #30 on: April 16, 2009, 05:09:52 am »
Tanks tend to be kept in service for a long time sometimes; the Israeli Shermans, for example. So suppose either:

1. The Israelis had something other than Shermans to work with: Comets or Cromwells, for example.

2. The Syrians had more technical ability of their own and less Soviet support, so they endlessly re-built and upgraded their Panzer IVs.

3. Czechoslovakia had a Bf.109s production line intact and built them for a while after the war, a number of them finding their way to Israel. Suppose they'd had a Panther production line intact as well..... Super-Panther with a 105mm gun anyone?  :wub:

4. Czechoslovakia also had it's Pz-38t/Hetzer line too, and the Swiss used Hetzers for many years: suppose they'd had a chance to export them elsewhere and they were then emdlessly upgraded?:
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Offline Mossie

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Re: Never Retired
« Reply #31 on: April 16, 2009, 07:43:39 am »
Ships as well.  The Iowa class served long after the battleship was deemed obsolete, although their firepower still proved useful & they were a great show of power.  Imagine several other nations retaining battleships after the fifties, maybe only just being retired.  Maybe keeping their guns, or having them replaced by missile systems.
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Re: Never Retired
« Reply #32 on: April 16, 2009, 08:05:47 am »
Ships as well.  The Iowa class served long after the battleship was deemed obsolete, although their firepower still proved useful & they were a great show of power.  Imagine several other nations retaining battleships after the fifties, maybe only just being retired.  Maybe keeping their guns, or having them replaced by missile systems.

HMS Vangaurd!!! HMS Warspite!!! HMS King George V!!! HMS Renown!!! FNS Richelieu!!! FNS Dunkerque!!! GNS Tirpitz! Vittorio Veneto! Yamato! Conte Di Cavour! Andrea Doria!

Offline Weaver

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Re: Never Retired
« Reply #33 on: April 16, 2009, 09:23:49 am »
Ships as well.  The Iowa class served long after the battleship was deemed obsolete, although their firepower still proved useful & they were a great show of power.  Imagine several other nations retaining battleships after the fifties, maybe only just being retired.  Maybe keeping their guns, or having them replaced by missile systems.

Or perhaps as a cheaper option, some of the pre-Tiger RN 6" cruisers could have been kept and re-fitted as fire support for the Marines. 4" guns replaced by 3" Mk.6s, Seacats on the hanger corners etc....

Alternately, some of them could be hugely re-built as missile cruisers in USN fashion. This would probably involve a complete new superstructure aft of the funnels, containing a Seaslug magazine with one or two trackers on the roof, Seaslug launcher in place of X-turret, Seacats on the hanger roof corners etc... You could probably do this using Airfix's Belfast and County kits....
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Offline pyro-manic

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Re: Never Retired
« Reply #34 on: April 16, 2009, 12:29:27 pm »
You'd have a hell of a job trying to fit a Seaslug magazine into Belfast. :blink:

HMS Vangaurd!!! HMS Warspite!!! HMS King George V!!! HMS Renown!!! FNS Richelieu!!! FNS Dunkerque!!! GNS Tirpitz! Vittorio Veneto! Yamato! Conte Di Cavour! Andrea Doria!

Warspite and Renown were both knackered (Warspite particularly was in very poor shape by the end of the war), so they wouldn't be converted. The later KGVs (Anson and Howe) would be good candidates for the RN, as would the Richeleiu and Jean Bart for France. Vanguard is possible, though I think the Admiralty would be very reluctant to rebuild a brand new ship. Maybe construction gets halted during the war and is re-started later to a modified design, like the Tiger-class cruisers? I can certainly see her getting Seacat launchers and helicopters, though, and maybe Exocet box launchers in the 60s. Beautiful ship... :wub:
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Offline Weaver

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Re: Never Retired
« Reply #35 on: April 17, 2009, 12:46:35 am »
You'd have a hell of a job trying to fit a Seaslug magazine into Belfast. :blink:

Yes, but remember, Seaslug was assembled by ratings just before loading onto the launcher. Taking the rear turrets out of Belfast gives you large, deep magazine spaces below the actual "hanger" behind the launcher that would contain the assembly room, so perhaps a different handling arrangement to the Counties would be possible. Alternatively, it could have an entirely horizontal magazine extending either side of the aft funnel.
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Offline ChernayaAkula

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Re: Never Retired
« Reply #36 on: April 18, 2009, 06:23:58 pm »
FW Flitzer in post war Luftwaffe markings.
<...>

Already in the works. ;) Pics soon!  :party:
Cheers,
Moritz


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Offline Weaver

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Re: Never Retired
« Reply #37 on: April 19, 2009, 02:31:56 am »
You'd have a hell of a job trying to fit a Seaslug magazine into Belfast. :blink:

Yes, but remember, Seaslug was assembled by ratings just before loading onto the launcher. Taking the rear turrets out of Belfast gives you large, deep magazine spaces below the actual "hanger" behind the launcher that would contain the assembly room, so perhaps a different handling arrangement to the Counties would be possible. Alternatively, it could have an entirely horizontal magazine extending either side of the aft funnel.


Been looking into this: apparently there was a scheme proposed to fit Seaslug into Fijis, which were actually smaller than Belfast, although they did have the advantage of having their aft funnel further forward. The scheme was rejected on the ground that the ships would be 20yrs old by the time they re-entered service with guided weapons, but that's an economic argument, not a technical one.

Here's another thought: the US Tartar missile system was originally started, in part, due to a Royal navy request for a small-ship SAM, but then never bought by Britain, presumably for industrial reasons. What if it had been? Tartar, with it's compact, vertical drum magazine, was deliberately designed for re-fitting in the space vacated by turrets and owes much of it's ubiquity to this feature.

Three possibilities:

Belfast AAW cruiser with a Mk.11 launcher in place of X turret, all the 4" replaced by two twin 3" Mk.6 and Seacat on the hanger roofs.

Daring DDG with single Mk.13 in place of X turret and torpedo tubes replaced by command/electronics spaces. The RN considered the Darings too small to convert, but the French performed just such a conversion on four of their similarly-sizes T-47s.

Leander FFG with single Mk.13 in place of the 4.5" turret.



All obviously based on Airfix 1/600th kit availability: no idea what else is available although there was a FROG 1/415th  :rolleyes: Tiger (one on ebay at the moment) which I think represents the ship pre-helo conversion (two 6" twin and three 3" Mk.6).

Edit: just found out something I didn't know: back in the day, Airfix did a pre-helo Tiger in 1/600th. Now that opens up all sorts of interesting mix'n'match possibilities......
« Last Edit: April 19, 2009, 03:25:16 am by Weaver »
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Offline upnorth

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Re: Never Retired
« Reply #38 on: April 19, 2009, 03:18:06 am »
How did a thread like this go for three pages with no mention of the C-130 Hercules?!

You wouldn't have to change it much either, just re-engine it for whatever might be right for whatever time period you like and let it keep on keeping on other wise.

What would the Hercules 300th anniversary colour bird look like?

Offline GTX

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Re: Never Retired
« Reply #39 on: April 20, 2009, 01:00:56 am »
Quote
How did a thread like this go for three pages with no mention of the C-130 Hercules?!

Or the CH-47 - first flight:  21 September 1961.

Possible future Herc - QC-130:



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Offline upnorth

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Re: Never Retired
« Reply #40 on: April 20, 2009, 03:42:06 am »
Intresting concept Greg. It sort of takes the design "full circle". back to the "Roman Nose" it started with. :thumbsup:

Offline Weaver

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Re: Never Retired
« Reply #41 on: April 23, 2009, 08:50:53 am »
Okay here's a thought: what about interceptors recycled as ground attack/COIN aircraft? I was looking at the old Heller F-94B(?) early Starfire (the one with small radar and guns in the nose and mid-wing pods) and thinking that when it was past it's sell-by date for interception (i.e. about five minutes after it rolled out of the factory), it would make a passable attack aircraft. Then I got to thinking about the -D version with all the rockets. Then I got to thinking about the F-89..... :wacko: :wacko: :wacko:
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Offline chrisonord

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Re: Never Retired
« Reply #42 on: April 23, 2009, 09:34:29 am »
And why not!!!
That is what I think also Weaver, I have gone a step further with some of my OAP stuff though, and stuck a turbo prop on them. The hobby Boss easy build F-84 is a prime candidate, and they are less than a fiver each. The detail is good and only take 5 minutes to build. This leaves all the upgrade stuff to be done with relative ease. As they are they would make a good COIN aircraft for a 3rd world country, as they are slow enough as standard.
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Offline Daryl J.

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Re: Never Retired
« Reply #43 on: April 23, 2009, 09:54:13 am »
Hey Weavs, there's a F-89C from Revell in Ye Olde Basement that was purchased 'bout a decade ago to do up in SEA markings as a truck'n'trail buster.   It wouldn't take much to bring it forward to use as a Punjab patrol.  One could even use the nose art 'Uzzi Becky'.



Daryl J., liking your idea.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2009, 09:59:39 am by Daryl J. »

Offline Nils

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Re: Never Retired
« Reply #44 on: April 23, 2009, 10:07:43 am »
Belgium could have continued the use of the F-104 (upgrade to F-104S) or the Mirage 5 (MIRSIP upgrade).
could have saved a bundle on the F-16. upgrade the S-58 to S-58T's, or even upgrade there CF-100 to an electronic warfare/jammer/spy plane.

did anyone mention EE Lightnings equiped with AMRAAM  ;D
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