Author Topic: Zero, Zeke, and Rufe  (Read 9988 times)

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Offline Daryl J.

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Zero, Zeke, and Rufe
« on: May 03, 2008, 11:41:08 am »
Since Tamiya is issuing a new-tool Zero, why not whiff it before it's released rather than listen to the other D.G.'s bash it prior to release:

The US begins immediate economic recovery plans for Japan and soon has the Zero back in production in a decent facility albeit in limited form.   With the economies of continued war going forward, the US Navy and Marine Corps wanted an inexpensive, reliable aircraft useful for P.R. missions.   The armored seat and better engine of the Zero 52 fit the bill and soon there were some in service with the USMC.   

Overall GSB but retaining a blacker shaded cowling.  USMC markings.    Fuel tanks under the wings oversized and outfitted with camera equipment in a half fuel/half recon arrangement similar to the Yugoslavian F-84 Plank-wing tip tanks.   Armament either eliminated altogether or one cannon per wing depending on individual aircraft.   Piloted by S. Koreans in order to minimize social wounds caused by the war with Japan.

Or....the Zero 52 goes back into production per paragraph one but Mitsubishi is taken over by Allied financial interests and is exported to foreign countries such as Egypt, Nicaragua, Mexico, France, Congo, etc.   One color scheme that comes to mind is the FAG P-51D's that was on Aztec (Albatros??) sheet about a decade ago.


That should be a little beauty of a kit yes?


Daryl J.

Offline joncarrfarrelly

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Re: New 1/48 Tamiya Zero 52:
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2008, 11:10:09 pm »

Wondering about Hawaian (using 3 colour RAF roundels) where the Japanese had invaded and then promised independance to a puppet government?? A mix of an Alt history book I was browsing and what happened in Indonesia.

The aircraft of a Japanese controlled Hawai'i would more than likely have sported Hinomaru. The population of Hawai'i in 1941 was 37%  Japanese, Hawaiians were less than 15%, and the Japanese plans for Hawai'i ranged from military occupation to outright annexation. The more grandiose of the Japanese scenarios (the majority from civil/academic writers rather than the military) relied on the assumption that Hawai'i residents of Japanese origin or descent would willingly aid the Imperial forces. They had some reason to believe that to be true, however any attempt to invade and hold the Islands would have been disastrous and how much actual support they would have received is open to debate.

Read 'Hawaii Under the Rising Sun' by John J. Stephan.

Jon
"Evil our grandsires were, our fathers worse;
And we, till now unmatched in ill,
Must leave successors more corrupted still."
Horace, 65BC - 8BC. Marsh translation.

Offline Daryl J.

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Zero Prototype
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2009, 09:45:23 am »
A6M prototype with engine cowling similar to A5M series when viewed from the side, fixed and spatted undercarriage, open cockpit.


And yesterday, 2 Tamiya A6M5c's were ordered (the cheap ones....they've got the correct armored seat and will fit a photo recon role and ground pounder role with less whiff effort than the new release, spendy (!!!!  :blink:)  kit). 




Daryl J.

Offline joncarrfarrelly

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Re: Zero, Zeke, and Rufe
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2009, 12:43:42 am »
From a Secret Projects thread.
Open cockpit and raised back A6M variations, or so the poster claimed.

12-Shi developmental program windtunnel models and the
'profiles' a Polish magazine generated from the model photos.

Frankly, I think the profiles, while cool, are a result of imagineering,
as they have been extrapolated into forms that don't exist in the
photos of the models. Proportions are also altered to fit the artist's
pre-conceptions.

Jon
"Evil our grandsires were, our fathers worse;
And we, till now unmatched in ill,
Must leave successors more corrupted still."
Horace, 65BC - 8BC. Marsh translation.

Offline Radish

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Re: Zero, Zeke, and Rufe
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2009, 02:59:52 am »
I still need to build the straw sunshade over the cockpit of the A6M2-N....yes....
the THATCHED RUFE :wacko: :drink: :drink: :party:
Once you've visited the land of the Loonies, a return is never far away.....

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Offline PanzerWulff

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Re: Zero, Zeke, and Rufe
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2009, 07:14:33 am »
I have always wondered how the zero would have looked if japan had installed inline engines like most of europe was doing with their fighters
"Panzer"
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Offline joncarrfarrelly

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Re: Zero, Zeke, and Rufe
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2009, 09:57:34 am »
I have always wondered how the zero would have looked if japan had installed inline engines like most of europe was doing with their fighters
"Panzer"
Well it wouldn't have looked like the Zero as we know it if it had used an inline V-12.
The Zero fuselage began with a circular cross-section that moved gradually through
tapering, flattened slightly asymmetric oval forms that blended the outline of the radial
engine right back to a point. Its very doubtful that Horikoshi would have used the same
cross-sections with a V-12.

The Kawasaki Ki 61 and Aichi M6A1 are the best examples of V-12 powered Japanese types
and can serve as a good indication of how equally smoothly the Mitsubishi team would have
incorporated a V-12.  Another guide is to take look at the Hisso-engined Mitsubishi A5M3.

However, a V-12 powered Zero wouldn't be the Zero as a V-12 engined aircraft would not have
been able to meet the IJN's critical range specifications for the 12-Shi requirement.

The IJN had planned on using Aichi built versions of the He 100 as their land-based interceptor,
the project did not come to fruition as the necessary drawings, tooling and jigs were never
sent from Germany.

So, What-if the Navy had stuck with a liquid-cooled V-12 for their land-based interceptor program?,
seeking a home-grown replacement for the unfulfilled He 100 plans?
What-if Mitsubishi had decided to respond to the requirement with a new design that utilized
much of the engineering from the 12-Shi/A6M development? How might it have looked?

Now to some speculative wool-gathering using known shapes.

Upright V-12 ala Merlin, Hisso 12Y etc:
Spitfire XVI fuselage with Zero wing, empennage and canopy.

Inverted V-12 ala DB60X, Ha 140, Ju 2XX:
He 112 fuselage with Zero wing, empennage and canopy.
He 100 fuselage with Zero wing, empennage and canopy.
Ki 61 fuselage, later cut down type with Zero wing, empennage and canopy.

Jon
"Evil our grandsires were, our fathers worse;
And we, till now unmatched in ill,
Must leave successors more corrupted still."
Horace, 65BC - 8BC. Marsh translation.

Offline sequoiaranger

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Annular Radiator?
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2009, 05:54:14 pm »
>Well it wouldn't have looked like the Zero as we know it if it had used an inline V-12.
The Zero fuselage began with a circular cross-section that moved gradually through
tapering, flattened slightly asymmetric oval forms that blended the outline of the radial
engine right back to a point. Its very doubtful that Horikoshi would have used the same
cross-sections with a V-12.<

But...had they decided on an annular radiator (like the Ju-88, Fw-190D or others), they could have kept the forward fuselage circular in cross-section. The inline engines, especially with an annular radiator in front, would have moved the C.G. forward, so some compensation would have to made--extend the tail slightly, or move some equipment farther back, etc., JUST as they did with the Fw-190.
My mind is like a compost heap: both "fertile" and "rotten"!

Offline Daryl J.

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Re: Zero, Zeke, and Rufe
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2009, 06:30:53 pm »
An AnnularZeke.  That's something to consider.   The length addition would likely be just behind the main wing along the vertical panel line that wraps just under the aft end of the canopy.   The Zero cockpit remnant sitting in the Evergreen Aviation Museum in McMinneville, OR seems to show there is some sort of major attachment point there.   As Zeros are far from my forte, I'm just guessing, but for whiffery, a fuselage extension should work there rather well.    Maybe there is a reason the old Tamiya 1/48 Zero's are still so inexpensive.............. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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Offline joncarrfarrelly

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Re: Zero, Zeke, and Rufe
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2009, 09:27:29 pm »
An AnnularZeke.  That's something to consider.   The length addition would likely be just behind the main wing along the vertical panel line that wraps just under the aft end of the canopy.   The Zero cockpit remnant sitting in the Evergreen Aviation Museum in McMinneville, OR seems to show there is some sort of major attachment point there.   As Zeros are far from my forte, I'm just guessing, but for whiffery, a fuselage extension should work there rather well.    Maybe there is a reason the old Tamiya 1/48 Zero's are still so inexpensive.............. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


Daryl J.

The Zero fuselage separated into two pieces at the joint you reference.
This had to be done for transport as the forward fuselage was built
as a piece with the wing. You could not add in an extension there
without destroying the aerodynamics of the fuselage.

Frankly, 'Doraizing' a Zero would be blasphemous and hideous.
The Jumo engined 190s are enough, doing the same butchery to
a Zero would be tragic.

Jon
"Evil our grandsires were, our fathers worse;
And we, till now unmatched in ill,
Must leave successors more corrupted still."
Horace, 65BC - 8BC. Marsh translation.

Offline joncarrfarrelly

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Re: Annular Radiator?
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2009, 09:30:13 pm »
>Well it wouldn't have looked like the Zero as we know it if it had used an inline V-12.
The Zero fuselage began with a circular cross-section that moved gradually through
tapering, flattened slightly asymmetric oval forms that blended the outline of the radial
engine right back to a point. Its very doubtful that Horikoshi would have used the same
cross-sections with a V-12.<

But...had they decided on an annular radiator (like the Ju-88, Fw-190D or others), they could have kept the forward fuselage circular in cross-section. The inline engines, especially with an annular radiator in front, would have moved the C.G. forward, so some compensation would have to made--extend the tail slightly, or move some equipment farther back, etc., JUST as they did with the Fw-190.

Yeah, and when they did it to the FW 190, they turned an attractive aircraft ugly.  :banghead:



« Last Edit: March 02, 2009, 10:06:00 pm by joncarrfarrelly »
"Evil our grandsires were, our fathers worse;
And we, till now unmatched in ill,
Must leave successors more corrupted still."
Horace, 65BC - 8BC. Marsh translation.

Offline sequoiaranger

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Jumo-ized Zero?
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2009, 10:43:37 pm »
>Yeah, and when they did it to the FW 190, they turned an attractive aircraft ugly. <

Yeah. Ugly and DEADLY!

The "D" model with the Jumo 213 in-line engine out-performed the radial BMW 801 models.
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Offline GTX

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Re: Zero, Zeke, and Rufe
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2009, 10:58:16 pm »


This one has a somewhat Hellcat look.

Regards,

Greg
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Offline GTX

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Re: Zero, Zeke, and Rufe
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2009, 02:55:31 pm »
Some mindless play:



Regards,

Greg
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Offline sequoiaranger

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"Mindless"?
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2009, 03:37:17 pm »
Hard to tell if it's supposed to move in air or water!!  :rolleyes:
My mind is like a compost heap: both "fertile" and "rotten"!