Author Topic: Fouga Magister/Zephyr Ideas  (Read 13757 times)

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Offline Mossie

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Fouga Magister/Zephyr Ideas
« on: September 04, 2008, 04:27:42 am »
What could you do with the Magister & carrier capapble Zephyr?

Single Seater?

Swept wing variants?

Larger more capable variant, use a CF-100 Canuck as a basis?

Loose the V tail, or would that be sacrilige??? :blink:
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Offline Weaver

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Re: Fouga Magister/Zephyr Ideas
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2008, 09:27:42 am »
Here's some profiles I posted on my profile thread, mostly in order to work my own ideas for the Trainers with Teeth GB out:

1. Is a standard Magister.

2. Has the rear cockpit replaced with two 30mm DEFAs or 20mm Mk.12s in the lower fuselage, with their barrels under the front cockpit and an access panel and gas vent on the side. I didn't like the idea of MB-326K-style side blisters, since the Magister's air intakes are further back and I could see gun gas going into them. However I've since thought better of this, so maybe side blisters would work after all.

3. Has the front cockpit replaced by two 30mm DEFAs in an enlarged gun bay in place of the original 7.62mm weapons. The only problem I can see with this one is that the ammo is a long way ahead of the CofG, so it might cause a trim problem as it was expended.



Swept wing seems doable, and the Fiat G.91 immediately springing to mind as a donor. Since I've got both kits, I'll have a butchers when I get home.

There was an advanced version (Aerospatiale CM90) which flew as a prototype. It had stepped seating, four pylons and Astafan IIg engines. It didn't get any takers, but in the back story for my TwTGB idea the Israelis bought the whole programme, thus making the original "Tzukits" surplus and available for conversion to single-seat attack versions for export.





They also built a prototype of a four-seat liason version in collaboration with Heinkel (who built the standard Magister under licence for Germany), in the style of the Ms.760 Paris. This had a wider fuselage and a big, one-piece canopy. Nice looking plane IMHO.





« Last Edit: October 04, 2008, 03:28:58 pm by Weaver »
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Offline Shasper

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Re: Fouga Magister/Zephyr Ideas
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2008, 12:40:15 pm »
That would be the ultimate Tweet rip-off ;)

What about shifting the cockpit & nose gear aft a touch & enlarging the nose for a basic radar for IFR work?


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Offline Weaver

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Re: Fouga Magister/Zephyr Ideas
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2008, 01:23:08 pm »
As promised, swept-wing Magister mockup, using G.91 wings and tailplanes:



The Magister wing roots are much thicker and narrower chord than the Gina's, but not beyond a bit of butchery and PSR.



Here it is with the Magister wings under it to show the relative sizes. Looks pretty good to me:



The G.91 tailplanes are, unsuprisingly, much smaller than the Magister's combined fin/tails (Fails? Tins? Hmmmm  :lol:). I couldn't fit them directly anyway since their lugs are thicker than the Magister's slots, so I've extended them with blu-tack. Probably best to use parts from some other kit (F-86?) if you were doing it for real.

Please note that I do NOT intend to build this model: I really like the credibility of the background story for my Magister project, and a swept wing conversion would be too radical. If someone else wants to do it though, feel free: I'd love to see the finished result.
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Offline Mossie

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Re: Fouga Magister/Zephyr Ideas
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2008, 03:56:05 am »
Thanks for posting those projects, the CM.191 rings a vague bell from somewhere, but I didn't know about the CM.90.

That swept wing magister looks nice & someone needs to build that! :wub:  I can imagine that in the real world, there might be al sorts of engineering fun that that wing might cause.
I don't think it's nice, you laughin'. You see, my mule don't like people laughin'. He gets the crazy idea you're laughin' at him. Now if you apologize, like I know you're going to, I might convince him that you really didn't mean it.

Offline Weaver

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Re: Fouga Magister/Zephyr Ideas
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2008, 04:20:08 am »
Thanks for posting those projects, the CM.191 rings a vague bell from somewhere, but I didn't know about the CM.90.

That swept wing magister looks nice & someone needs to build that! :wub:  I can imagine that in the real world, there might be al sorts of engineering fun that that wing might cause.

Oh yeah  - it overlaps the engine bay doors for a start.... Also , the Gina's u/c is half in the fuselage whilst the Mag's is all in the wing, so the half bays in the Gina's wings are too small, and on the Airfix Gina, the wings are moulded in one piece... :banghead:

What's probably a better scheme occurred to me afterwards: put the wings above the engine pods in the shoulder position, fit the complete Gina fin and tailplanes and pass it off as a "'60s Alpha Jet". You'd have to make new, fuselage-mounted u/c of course, but with the wing box removed from the intake duct, it should be possible to route the latter over a suitable bay.

Since the Gina wings are spare, I'm now contemplating buying another Magister..... :rolleyes:
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Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: Fouga Magister/Zephyr Ideas
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2008, 07:33:06 am »
4 seats and swept wings are wonderful ideas :wub: :wub:
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Offline Weaver

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Re: Fouga Magister/Zephyr Ideas
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2008, 05:32:38 pm »
I tried a pair of F-86 tailplanes on it tonight: perfect! And guess what? They're going to be spare too..... ever get the feeling that you're being pushed into something by unseen forces?  :unsure: ;D
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Offline Daryl J.

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Re: Fouga Magister/Zephyr Ideas
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2008, 09:24:25 pm »
Lose the V-tail and replace with T-tail.   Add V-tail to Canada's Tutor.

Add exhaust whistles to the real machine as it whistles tremendously already!!!!



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Offline joncarrfarrelly

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Re: Fouga Magister/Zephyr Ideas
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2008, 10:15:41 am »
Another CM 191 3-view, this one scanned from Flug-Revue, June 1961.

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Offline Weaver

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Re: Fouga Magister/Zephyr Ideas
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2008, 02:56:16 am »
Practicality aside, a CM-191, or an MS-760 Paris, or the projected Cessna 6-seater based on the T-37, would be SO much cooler than a Learjet........ ;D :thumbsup:
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Offline Mossie

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Re: Fouga Magister/Zephyr Ideas
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2008, 04:44:00 am »
Or even the Hawker P.1128 Huntsman, a bizjet with Hunter wings:
http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,13717.0/highlight,hawker+huntsman.html

I suppose there's no reason why you couldn't modify a Magister in a similar, although I don't think that wing would be much use to a Bizjet?  Mind you, like you mentioned Weave, there's the cool factor of military jets converted to bizjets! :ph34r:
I don't think it's nice, you laughin'. You see, my mule don't like people laughin'. He gets the crazy idea you're laughin' at him. Now if you apologize, like I know you're going to, I might convince him that you really didn't mean it.

Offline Weaver

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Re: Fouga Magister/Zephyr Ideas
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2008, 05:22:32 am »
Or even the Hawker P.1128 Huntsman, a bizjet with Hunter wings:
http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,13717.0/highlight,hawker+huntsman.html

Cheers - never heard of that!  :thumbsup: Damn is it pretty...... :wub: :wub: :wub:

Quote
I suppose there's no reason why you couldn't modify a Magister in a similar, although I don't think that wing would be much use to a Bizjet?  Mind you, like you mentioned Weave, there's the cool factor of military jets converted to bizjets! :ph34r:

Weeeeell a biz jet needs a steady ride rather than agility, so putting a trainer wing on a bigger, heavier fuselage would be appropriate. I agree that you might be pushing it a bit with the Magister though....

There was a US company called Jet Craft who were going to build 6/8-seat biz-jets based on surplus Vampires (!) back in the early 1970s the result to be called the Mystery Jet MJ1. I think there was a UK attempt to do something similar too.

This is the US one:



More info here (at the end):

http://www.vectorsite.net/avvamp_1.html

« Last Edit: September 19, 2008, 05:25:48 am by Weaver »
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Offline The Rat

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Re: Fouga Magister/Zephyr Ideas
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2008, 06:10:17 am »
As promised, swept-wing Magister mockup, using G.91 wings and tailplanes:



Okay, that's way too pretty to sit unbuilt!
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Offline joncarrfarrelly

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Re: Fouga Magister/Zephyr Ideas
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2008, 09:51:48 am »
Mind you, like you mentioned Weave, there's the cool factor of military jets converted to bizjets! :ph34r:

Ya mean like the Learjet?  ;D

Swiss P-16, progenitor of the Learjet:

http://hsfeatures.com/features04/p16fm_1.htm

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Horace, 65BC - 8BC. Marsh translation.