Author Topic: B-58 Hustler  (Read 17555 times)

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Offline datguy

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Re: B-58 Hustler
« Reply #30 on: December 07, 2005, 04:09:46 pm »
Quote
Awesome idea and the electronic escorting into hostile airspace is such a neat addition. I don't know much about Intruder opps but I've always had the impression that ELINT aircraft always stayed waaaaaaay in back. What a cool idea having a guy running alongside you running electronic interference. Strap a couple of Slam missles in the pod too will ya. Hooo Raaa

That would make for a neat inflight diorama. A flight of 4 Hustlers, three carrying bombs and one in the tail end Charley with the Wizzo gear. All in grey formal dresses for the big dance.

[SNIP}
This is exactly what is depicted in the 1964 movie "Fail-Safe" except they called the B-58 the "Vindicator."  There was a made for TV version in 2000 that used B-1's in the role of Vindicator, I think.

I remember being terrified by the movie (and the book it's based on) way back during the 70's when I was first exposed to them.

DG

Offline elmayerle

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Re: B-58 Hustler
« Reply #31 on: December 07, 2005, 05:25:31 pm »
Do a two-piece pod, ala' the F-107's centerline pod with alternate center pods - jamming gear, recce gear, etc.   For late 70s - early 80s, replace the J79s with PW1120s.

For "official" what-if B-58's, check out the second edition of the Aerofax book with a stretched one with J75s (Iroqois instead for CAF markings?), the airliner studies, and other such "interesting" tidbits).
« Last Edit: March 17, 2008, 09:33:32 pm by Jeffry Fontaine »
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Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: B-58 Hustler
« Reply #32 on: December 07, 2005, 05:54:48 pm »
Just about any nuclear capable aircraft is capable of jamming at one level or another once they release their nuclear weapon.  When the weapon detonates it will create a very large Electro-Magnetic Pulse and depending on the altitude, it will cover a lot of territory at the speed of light and fry circuits very quickly.  

So you really don't need a lot of electronic gimmicks when you have the ultimate terminal jammer strapped on and you are heading for the enemy's heartland...
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Offline MCS

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Re: B-58 Hustler
« Reply #33 on: December 07, 2005, 07:32:21 pm »
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Do a two-piece pod, ala' the F-107's centerline pod with alternate center pods - jamming gear, recce gear, etc.   For late 70s - early 80s, replace the J79s with PW1120s.
Hmmmmm, a two-piece pod, yet another option to consider...

I wonder how a combination jamming/recce pod would fair. Jam the area prior to the strike and then photograph it afterwards...great...a third option.

Thought about the PW1120's as well, but, I wasn't sure if they were in development during the mid 70's.

Now Evan, since you're out resident engineer, two questions for ya (anyone else, feel free to chime in):

1. If I went with some kind of palletized pod replacing the pylons (as I mentioned in my second post, something shaped similar to the centerline canoe on the EF-111) would they severely disrupt the airflow under the wing?

2. With the palletized pods do you think the inboard engines would impede the jamming in any significant amount? From what I've seen, most A/C with some kind of EW equipment, always have the various antennas, etc., in "clean" areas: top of tail, wingtip, on pylons, etc.

 
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Offline Gary F

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Re: B-58 Hustler
« Reply #34 on: December 07, 2005, 10:53:46 pm »
To add to the Fail Safe info, I believe in addition to jamming, decoys, and chaff, the 'EB-58' also carried some small A2A missiles to help protect the bombers it was protecting.  I remember being fascinated as a kid watching the battle on the big board involving the EB-58 and it really hurt when it finally got killed.

Offline Howard of Effingham

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Re: B-58 Hustler
« Reply #35 on: December 08, 2005, 01:32:14 am »
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Just about any nuclear capable aircraft is capable of jamming at one level or another once they release their nuclear weapon.  When the weapon detonates it will create a very large Electro-Magnetic Pulse and depending on the altitude, it will cover a lot of territory at the speed of light and fry circuits very quickly. 

So you really don't need a lot of electronic gimmicks when you have the ultimate terminal jammer strapped on and you are heading for the enemy's heartland...
going slightly OT, jeffery, i recall hearing about EMP for the first time in the 1980's and not thinking too much of such. until it has to be said i saw a photograph of that
EMP testing site at holloman AFB [iirc] with a B-52G or H on top of a huge wooden trestle thingy.  :huh:

t.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2008, 09:34:34 pm by Jeffry Fontaine »
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Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: B-58 Hustler
« Reply #36 on: December 08, 2005, 05:11:53 pm »
Not OT at all, when the subject is electronic countermeasures, that means active jamming with devices that will deceive or blind the radar or the communications link and the alternative which is "terminal jamming" to make the target stop radiating. 

Terminal Jamming is accomplished with steel on target, be it iron bombs, cluster bombs, precision guided bombs, or missiles, the intention with terminal jamming is make a smoking hole in the ground where the emitter had been previously located. 

The EMP effect with the nuclear weapon has also been replicated without the use of fissionable materials in what is described as an EMP bomb that produces the same EMP in a very small scale much like the nuclear weapon but without all of the nasty radioactive side-effects.   
« Last Edit: February 08, 2009, 04:16:19 pm by Jeffry Fontaine »
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Offline Matt Wiser

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Re: B-58 Hustler
« Reply #37 on: December 08, 2005, 11:19:47 pm »
IIRC from the book and both movies the strike B-58s carried two 20 Mt bombs, and four AAMs; the book called them Bloodhounds, with nuclear warheads and a
dual IR/Radar seeker. One problem: when shooting at Sovet AAMs, the Bloodhound ignored the missiles and went after the fighters. The 6th plane in each
group was the "EB-58" with additional decoys, ECM, and Bloodhounds.
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Re: B-58 Hustler
« Reply #38 on: December 09, 2005, 04:46:51 am »
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Just about any nuclear capable aircraft is capable of jamming at one level or another once they release their nuclear weapon.  When the weapon detonates it will create a very large Electro-Magnetic Pulse and depending on the altitude, it will cover a lot of territory at the speed of light and fry circuits very quickly.  

So you really don't need a lot of electronic gimmicks when you have the ultimate terminal jammer strapped on and you are heading for the enemy's heartland...
That works if your target is the only defended site you'll overfly, and there are no enemy fighters in the air. Otherwise, you'll have to have ECM to get you to your target (and back) in one piece.  

Offline philp

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Re: B-58 Hustler
« Reply #39 on: November 19, 2007, 11:06:59 pm »


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Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: B-58 Hustler
« Reply #40 on: December 26, 2007, 12:02:13 am »
One of the excuses given for the retirement of the B-58 from active service was the inability of the airframe to deal with the stres caused by low level flight.  Perhaps this could have been addressed by changing the vertical control surfaces to something a bit smaller in size to accomodate the thicker air encountered during low level flight.  Maybe a switch to a shorter vertical fin similar in size to the F-111 could have allowed the B-58 to soldier on for a few more years as a low level strike weapon.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2008, 09:36:58 pm by Jeffry Fontaine »
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Offline Aircav

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Re: B-58 Hustler
« Reply #41 on: December 26, 2007, 03:04:18 am »
There's this one from the FSM a number of years ago
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Offline Eddie M.

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Re: B-58 Hustler
« Reply #42 on: January 07, 2008, 07:08:40 pm »
Having perused the photos in IAPR2, one thing mystifies me.  How did the B-58 nosewheel leg actually retract with that humungous tank in the way?

I'm not sure if I had taken these when this was asked, but I took a lot of photos of our resident Hustler down in Galveston. The front gear articulate up and aft, but the wheels go forward.Very impressive in person. :mellow: I have more detailed photos if anyone wishes to see them.
   Eddie







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Offline Mossie

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Re: B-58 Hustler
« Reply #43 on: January 08, 2008, 10:43:28 am »
I'm sure I've mentioned it before (thought it was here, but clearly not & may even have imagined the whole thing!), but I've often thought the B-58 is ripe for a bit of scalorama.  Take a 1/72 Hustler, add a 1/48 canopy & other gubbins on it & you've got yourself a fighter.  Sitck a new engine in the rear & an intake style of your choice, or even keep two of the podded engines.  I think it'd make a pretty sexy interceptor.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2008, 05:51:17 am by Mossie »
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Offline GTX

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Re: B-58 Hustler
« Reply #44 on: January 08, 2008, 11:19:16 pm »
Actually, what about a satellite launcher B-58?  Put a booster rocket in the tail and a satellite booster underneath.

Or alternatively, someone gets some out of the desert for use as a modern day space tourism vehicle.

Regards,

Greg
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